Unwanted extra frames in video

[bernkopf]

In my project I have one long original video clip from which I only use two short fractions.

I split the clip using the tool "Split All Tracks".

At the beginning of the second fraction there appeared a very short unwanted segment, which is about 60 ms long.

It is situated between 700 and 762 ms of the timeline.

The picture in the segment originates from the beginning of the original clip.

I am not able to remove the segment.

Here is the link to the portable project:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CTvOMkn6nz3_RrldWWkz1xLqwOtp7Iih

Please help.

[borate]

What version of VP are you running?

Two clips play here, for a total length of approximately one-second.

The first displays the winch for about .105, then the root for the duration.  The second displays the winch only.  No extra video is evident at the head of clip two.

Try Clearing Unused Cache Files under OPTIONS|DISC tab, then reload or reconstruct the project.

To spot whether there are unwanted clip fragments switch to Storyboard mode where individual clip thumbnails are shown.

Even if there is no errant clip, Storybook mode should make it easy to split out the unwanted content and delete (ripple).

[bernkopf]

I am running the last version 7.11.

Clearing Unused Cache Files under OPTIONS|DISC tab, then reloading and reconstructing the project doesn't help.

There are no extra clip fragments in Storyboard mode.

Splitting and deleting or deleting ripple even makes the problem worse.

It introduces mess into the project and even multiplies the errant segments.

I think I found the cause and a provisional workaround.

The error arises between speed changed clips and 'normal' unchanged clips.

Probably there is a bug in VP.

Split - delete - delete ripple doesn't work - see above.

My workaround:

In Timeline I zoom in the sequence as much as possible to be able to determine precisely the boundaries of the unwanted segment.

Then I follow the procedure described here:

http://help.nchsoftware.com/help/en/videopad/win/tasks_remove_section.html

[borate]

The region deletion should do the job.  And speed differences may account for the snippet.

Yet, no flash is detected here between clips in your project.  There is, however, the 'extra' winch shot at the head of the sequence.

Took your clip and cut out two random sections and placed them on the timeline - the first at 333 speed and the second at 100%...

No flashes or unwanted video were seen either at the head or merger of the clips.  But this did not duplicate your precise cuts or timings.

[bernkopf]

My previous statement about the workaround was too optimistic.

The unwanted extra shots are indestructible.

I removed all of them using the region deletion.

After a lot of work the project was clean and I was happy.

I saved the project and closed VP.

Then  I started VP again, cleared unused files in the cache, and reopened the project.

The unwanted extra shots are  there again.

There must be a bug in VideoPad.

[borate]

Again, the extra frames at the junction of the two clips are not seen here in the project that you linked.  Please link the latest full project.

Did you intend for the winch to be displayed briefly at the very head of the earlier 1:00 snippet?

[Nationalsolo]

Hi

Downloaded your short project of one clip.Loaded it from the vpj file.  This showed the timeline with two segments (clips) from the downloaded main clip. These make a very short sequence. The playback passes smoothly from one clip to the next. Frame by frame exam shows no extra frames at the join and switching to Storyboard mode shows no extra frames/clips. The timing on the sequence is as follows.....

• 000. The timeline starts with shot of the winch
• At .100 this changes to a shot of the tree stump. These shots comprise the first clip and are speed up to 333%.There is no join between the two shots.
• At exactly .700 is the joint between the clips. At this point the image changes from the tree stump to the winch.
• Image remains of the winch up to the end of the clip at .983

Is this what you expect? The last clip is not an image as the image bin is empty. There does not seem to be fault in this project when viewed here. (VP 7.11) Changed the clip back to 100% speed and saw no problems.

My findings replicate those of Borate.

Nat

 

[bernkopf]

Hi borate and Nat,

Thank you for your precise analysis.

I was really surprised to see that the project that I uploaded and linked didn't show my problem.

This is why you didn't understand my description.

And I didn't understand your replies.

The project contents corresponded exactly to Nat's description.

I apologize.

Either I changed something in the project after completing the description, or it was a result of strange behavior of VP that we are just researching.

Here is the link to a new extract from my project:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1r4CaPae5ZCWXHGV_yNwbhgs7KeVCwt6d/view?usp=sharing

The zip file contains also a pptx file with illustrative screenshots.

There are two occurrences of the unwanted segments:

1) Between 1.129 and 1.288 s

2) Between 8.783 and 9.259 s

When zooming deep into the transition at 8.783 you can also see a blank space and a short fraction of video, both 1 ms long.

They can't be noticeable in the final video but I think they come from the same misbehavior of VP.

[borate]

Multiple errors.  Suggest that you approach it this somewhat convoluted manner...

Place one source file on the timeline.  Export it as an mp4.   Clear the timeline.  Place the other source file on the timeline.  Export it as an mp4.

Clear the bin of the MTS files and load it with the converted mp4s.

In the bin, click the first file.  Under the preview window, set IN/OUT points with the red and blue START and END brackets.*

If the same clip is to be used for other segments, right-click on it and COPY.  Then right-click an empty area of the bin and click PASTE (clip).

Set new IN/OUT points.

When all segments have been made into individual clips, drop them onto the timeline.  Use ADD (under the preview window), which adds them to the end of existing clips, right-click on each and PLACE ON SEQUENCE AT END or drag them individually.

When done with the first file's clips, click the second file.  Set IN/OUT points and follow the same procedure.

Apply the speed up to the desired clip on the timeline.

-0-0-

If the speed change results in flash or unwanted frames, follow this procedure...

Speed up the clip, then right-click it and COPY

Click the + sign at the right side of the SEQUENCE ONE tab above the timeline, to create a new, blank sequence 2.

Right-click in the sequence area and PASTE (insert).

Export sequence 2 as an mp4.

Click the SEQUENCE ONE tab.

ADD the newly created sped-up file to the bin.

Drag it to the timeline, directly over the original.  It should replace the original.

Your result?

* After clicking the AUDIO tab on the toolbar there's a "scrubbing" item.  Confirm that it's turned off.

 

[Nationalsolo]

Hi

1. Switch into Storyboard mode. You will see the blank situated at 8,782. Right click and close the gap.
2. Back in timeline mode zoom right in to 8.782 and remove the short clip 0f 0.001at this point and then close the gap. It should now switch from root to winch OK.
3. I am assuming the unwanted bit is the CU of the winch before the stump. If so set cursor to 1.295 and split the track.
4. right click the segment to the left of this split and delete it. This will remove the section between 1.129 and 1.295 (if that was the unwanted bit..close up of winch just before root coming out shot.
5. Close the gap.

Nat

[bernkopf]

Hi,

I am afraid Nat’s procedure doesn’t work.

After completing it, I saved the project and closed VP, started VP again, cleared unused files in the cache, and reopened the project.

The unwanted extra shots are there again.

Borate’s approach is quite complicated.

Before I start with it, I would like to know:

Is it possible to convert all mts files before starting VideoPad?

I would do it in batch mode in the course of copying files from camera to PC with MP4 Converter or Prism Video File Converter.

Is there a way to export Sequence 2 without exporting Sequence 1? Otherwise, I would have to wait several hours for Sequence 1 to export in order to obtain a several second file of Sequence 2. And then to delete the exported file of Sequence 1, which I don’t need at the moment...

[borate]

Perplexing.  The MTS conversion suggestion may have no effect but is made because those files have occasionally caused issues, still being tracked down.

Export will output ONLY the sequence currently on the timeline and conversions can be batched with Prism.

The procedure outlined above, slightly revised,  is but one method of specifying segments and then placing them on the timeline.  It's pretty straightforward.

If results are poor, the optional speed change save/re-import may hint at what's causing the issue.

If extra frames persist, please upload and link the entire project as it stands.  It needs to be checked out.

[bernkopf]

Hi,

I performed several tests (see http://www.bernkopf.cz/truhla/190527_test.zip ) and came to these conclusions:

Prism didn’t work for me. The resulting files were jerky, diced, totally bad colors. I didn’t research it anymore. Instead, I used the MP4 Converter in batch mode to make the mp4 versions.

VP doesn’t like mts files. Changing speed of parts of clips results in completely faulty timing of the changed parts, regardless whether or not you use multiple copies of the original files in the bin.

Use of mp4 files without multiple copies gives a result similar to that of the project with mts files.

I hope that the following procedure will work:

Create mp4 versions of all mts files. You can do it in batch mode when copying the files from your camera to the PC. MP4 Converter in default settings answers the purpose well.

Add the mp4 files to the bin of VP.

Prepare in the bin a separate copy of original clip for each occurrence of the clip in the sequence.

Add the copies of the clip to the sequence.

In the sequence set IN/OUT points, change the speed, or make any other changes to each particular clip.

Be sure not to use a copy of the original clip from the bin more than once in the sequence.

The procedure described above may work for new projects. However, I still don’t know how to repair a completed project. Replacing unique mts files with mp4 versions and their copies would be too painful and risky.

I think the issues, still being tracked down, didn’t occur in previous versions of VP. In 2017 I made this video: https://youtu.be/lL7tGkVI8-w . Recently, I decided to make a Czech version of it. I didn’t touch anything except the texts in the titles. The video from 2017 is clean; the new one suffers from the unwanted extra frames. You can compare the part of the old video from about 40s (it is clean) with the extract of the new video that we are analyzing.

[bernkopf]

Hi borate,

The zip file contains three folders:

- 190527_test_mp4_copies

- 190527_test_mp4_no_copies

- 190527_test_mts_copies

Each folder contains a folder with the portable project and source files, and the non-portable project, e.g.:

- 2019-05-27 23-37-03

- 190527_test_mp4_copies.vpj

E.g. the folder 2019-05-27 23-37-03 contains the portable project and source files:

- 190527_test_mp4_copies.vpj

- 20170724_113442_winch_mp4.mp4

- 20170725_170526_winch_mp4.mp4

This is why the zip file is so large: It contains three instances / versions of each source file.

[borate]

Each test appears to contain somewhat different material.  On the "mp4 copies" snippet there's a jump cut between clips two and three, where speed was changed from 333 to 350.

Experimenting here, eliminated clip 3, then extended clip two to fill the gap.  Split clip 2, with the first section at 150 and the second at 350.  That resulted in a reasonably smooth speed up at the merger.

Other approaches:  speed up each clip, export it, and import it back into the project at 100% speed.  Or use a fade between clips that have two different speeds.

On the "mp4 no copies" snippet can't spot a problem.

The MTS test is a mess.  And there's something odd about the audio track meter display on all the tests - multiple bars hint at multiple channels??

Once again, there are no extra frames evident between clips in your initial snippet, where the speed drops from 333 to 100%.  In v7.11 preview or viewed as an mp4 export in MPC-HC, action is smooth and seamless, as confirmed by Nat.  It appears that you see something that we cannot.

[Jack11223344]

Thanks everybody, we can reproduce this bug and it will be fixed in the next release.