solved UNsplit / layering issues

[VideoStudent]

I want to un-split a track I split.  Because of the split point when I add a video effect and use animation, in the animation part of the effects window I can't see far enough to the right on the timeline to put a key frame to where I want the effect to end.  This is truly a track that I split, not two clips.  I tried right-clicking on the split point.  The context menu displays the options to Group the two clips, but doesn't display the Un-Split option.

[borate]

                          UNsplit shows up in the right-click context menu only when available. 

If it's not there, an alternative would be to copy the clips to another sequence.  Select the two clips, press <ctrl-C>, open a new sequence by clicking the + to the right of the Sequence 1 tab, press <ctrl-V>.  Export that sequence.  Replace the original with this clip.  Length will be the same. 

Another approach, to animate over the course of two clips (whether they are actually the same clip or not) might be to take note of the animation parameters at the end of clip one, and begin with the same parameters at the start of clip 2.  Then continue the animation to the end.

[VideoStudent]

Thanks for the quick reply.

Okay, thanks.  I will try your second suggestion first.  But why is the Un-split Clips context menu option missing?

Well, that's not perfect, but it worked well enough.  What I'm animating is Rotate, flip vertical 180 degrees over 2.5 seconds and back again over the next 2.5 seconds.  I don't know what the vertical value should be at the end of the first clip and the start of the next clip to make it seem like the slope of the line is continuous from 180 to 0.  Maybe algebra or calculus would help with that, but I don't know how to calculate it.  If the line is at 180 at 2.5 seconds and 0 at 5 seconds, then at 4.830 seconds where the first clip ends and the second clip begins the value should be n.  Solve for n.

Also, now I have another problem.  I have another video clip showing in the bottom right of the screen and I'm using Rotate to animate it flipping upside down 180 degrees to the top right over 2.5 seconds and then back down again right-side up over the next 2.5 seconds.  The problem is that there's another clip in the top right, and when the bottom clip flips up I want it to cover that one, be in front of it, but instead it goes behind it.  How can I make it go on top/over/in front of the clip that's already there?  I don't want to control-drag the whole bottom clip above the top clip, I just want it to be on top while it's going upside down and back.  Thanks.

[borate]

Can't say when UNsplit is available, but after moving on with editing it often isn't.  Perhaps someone else has discerned a pattern.  My guess is that UNsplit becomes unavailable if any transitions or effects have been added to the split clips.

The first video linked in a later post (for a short while) was a split clip, made as suggested earlier.  The numbers for the second half were taken from those seen to the right of the sliders, so there was no need for calculation.  Video #2 isn't precisely the effect you have in mind, as with #1, but the logic appears to apply.

Upper tracks take precedence over lower tracks, so if your image is to be in front it would normally be on a higher track.

[VideoStudent]

Thanks again, borate.  They both play directly in OneDrive, but I also downloaded them.  The second one is the situation I have.  The problem is that before that I have the reverse, i.e., the upper right video flips down to cover the lower right video, and that one works now, but if I control-drag the track for the lower right video above the track for the upper right video, then I will have the reverse situation:  when the upper right video flips down it will go behind the lower right video and when the lower right video flips up it will go in front of the upper right video.  What I need is a Z-axis video effect so that I can change the Z-axis value at any key frame.

Regarding the previous problem, I don't understand your answer, but I realized that I have three other flips in which I didn't make that unneeded split.  If I can accurately determine the end of the first clip, which I think is at 4.830 seconds, then I can find what the value is at that point in one of the other flips without a split and use that value for the end frame of the first clip and the beginning frame of the second clip in the split sequence.

I also wondered whether the Un-split is not available because both clips have effects.  I will try playing around with that.  Because I split the clip after I added effects to it, both clips have the same effects, so maybe if I remove the effects on the second clip, which I won't need anyway if I can Un-split them, the Un-split option will be available.  If not, I can document all the effects settings and then remove all effects from both clips and see whether the Un-split option displays in the context menu.  Then I can unsplit and then add the effects back from my notes.

 

[borate]

If Z is defined as forward/back, ROTATE and SCALE effects keyframing might simulate it.  But this may not be what you are describing.  Upload and share the project so others can see the clips and effects that you have programmed.   Nat, in particular, may have better insight.

•     Back up --- With your project on the timeline, click on MENU at the top-left.  Click FILE|BACK UP PROJECT FILES TO FOLDER.  Choose a folder and SELECT FOLDER.
•     Upload ---  Locate the saved, numbered FOLDER, NOT the VPJ or export file.  Upload it to a free server - Google Drive, MS OneDrive, etc.*
•     Get link --- Get a public link.  If using Google Drive click GET SHAREABLE LINK. Change "restricted" to "anyone with the link can view"  Click COPY LINK | DONE.
•     Share ---    Paste that link here, or click the folder at the top-right of this forum to message it privately to me.  It won't be shared.

          *    Before uploading, right-click the folder, click PROPERTIES.  Look at the File Size to confirm that it's not too big for the free space on the server.

As for the other issue, you might be better off first combining clips as mentioned earlier.  There's another way of accomplishing that, though it does add a sequence...

Follow the earlier instructions on pasting the selected clips to a new Sequence 2.  Then click the Sequences tab in the bin, right-click on Sequence 2 and replace the original content with that sequence.  You may or may not see the audio track, but it is there.

[VideoStudent]

Thanks again, borate.  I solved the split clip problem by finding the value of the animation line at the same point in another unsplit clip as the end of the first clip of the split clip and used that as the value at that point in time at the end of the first clip and the beginning of the second clip.  That works just fine and seems easier than the second sequence approach.

A Z-axis is one that is perpendicular to the X and Y axes, that is, a value of 0 on the Z axis is in the plane of the video or picture, negative values are further away from the viewer behind the plane of the video or picture, and positive values are closer to the viewer in front of the plane of the video or picture.  The combination of coordinates on the X, Y, and Z axes describe a three dimensional space.  I don't see how rotate and scale could simulate that.  Rotation is in the plane of the video/picture, and scale just makes the video/picture larger or smaller.  Yes, scale could simulate perspective because objects appear larger when they are closer to the view and smaller when they are farther away, but that doesn't solve the problem of having one object directly in front of another and then switching the position of the objects along the Z axis.

https://www.google.com/search?q=z+axis+in+video+editor

I haven't read any of those articles, but it looks like in some video editing software you can specify values on the Z axis. 

In Microsoft Word you can specify that a graphic is in front of text or behind text.  That is moving the graphic along the Z axis.

In VideoPad the only way you can specify where a track is on the Z axis is by control-dragging the entire track above or below another track.  I experimented to see whether I could drag just a clip above another track rather than the entire track and it doesn't allow that.

I don't want to share my whole project and all the source files.  I might upload a rendered version of just the section of the video that I'm having a problem with, showing the upper right clip successfully flipping down over a period of 2.5 seconds to cover the lower right clip and then back up over the next 2.5 seconds, and then the lower right clip flipping up over a period of 2.5 seconds but unsuccessfully going *behind* the upper right clip rather than in front and then back down over the next 2.5 seconds.  I want the lower right clip to be higher on the Z axis than the upper right clip just for the 5 seconds when it's flipping up and back down, not for the whole duration of the clip.

[borate]

Quote

VideoStudent wrote:  ...you can specify where a track is on the Z axis is by control-dragging the entire track above or below another track.  I experimented to see whether I could drag just a clip above another track rather than the entire track and it doesn't allow that.

If understood correctly, this isn't the case.  <Ctrl> isn't needed when dragging a track.  And individual clips definitely can be dragged.  Stacking is common in 'virtual choir' projects.  The attachment below may now be accessible when logged in.  If not, we'll go another route.

Do trim your project and share the problematic portion - here, ideally, so others can weigh in.

You might want to check out these 3D references... https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=Videopad+3d

[VideoStudent]

Thanks.  I don't know why I thought you needed to hold down <Ctrl> when dragging a track.  I thought I read it somewhere, but now I can't find that instruction.

I watched Drag.wmv.  I was trying to drag a clip between tracks like what happens when you drag a track up or down.  What it shows is dragging a clip to a new track.  I think that might work to solve the problem I'm having. 

Last night after I turned my computer off, thinking about the video that demonstrated rotate, I think I may have misunderstood what rotate does.  I thought it meant rotate left to right, like what happens when you click "rotate" in graphics editing or photo display programs.  But in the video it appears to be rotating along the Z axis front to back so that at one point you're looking at it on edge and it appears as just a line.  That might work also. 

Last night I also thought about making the clip transparent.  So now I have three things to try!

Regarding the virtual choir, in another project I'm using VideoPad to make a multi-track music video with other musicians.  I email them an .mp3 file and they listen to it through earbuds or headphones while making a video on the device of their choice of them playing along on their instrument.  They send me their video and I add it to the VideoPad project and sync it with existing tracks by lining up the audio.  So far so good. 

To create the .mp3 file each time I have to export to .mp4 from VideoPad, then open the .mp4 in my audio editing software Goldwave, which just opens the audio, then save it as .mp3.  I don't see a way to export just the audio in VideoPad to .mp3.  Goldwave also has a video editor VideoMeld that does offer that option.  I haven't tried that software yet.  https://www.goldwave.com/videomeld.php

I did find a way to export just the audio from all tracks in a project, but it's more complicated than what VideoMeld offers.  A comment in this thread tells how to do it in VideoPad:  https://nch.invisionzone.com/topic/24113-how-to-export-entire-audio-track/

Thanks for your patience and all your help!

[borate]

Note that there are two rotation effects.  Experiment with them both.

For virtual choir projects, which can exact lots of processing, be sure to review this...

  https://nch.invisionzone.com/topic/31824-tips-on-building-a-multi-person-virtual-choir/

How it's constructed is important, or the results, especially export, could be problematic.

It's very easy to export audio only from VP...

For a clip, right-click on the audio track - "Save Audio File as New File."

For the project (all audio channels), click the bin Sequences tab and right-click on the active sequence - "Save Sequence Audio as New File."

[VideoStudent]

Thanks again.  Regarding Save Sequence Audio as New File, it saves it as .wav; there is no option to save it as .mp3, so I still have to open it in GoldWave and save it as .mp3.  But the rendering of the sequence audio takes less time then rendering the video using export, so it does save time if not number of clicks.  And there might be situations where exporting to .wav is preferable to .mp3.  I haven't installed VideoMeld, just read the description on the website.  It says you can export the audio to .mp3 but doesn't say whether you can export it to .wav.

 

[borate]

WavePad is closely integrated with Videopad and does any number of conversions.

Depending upon the circumstance, right-clicking on an audio clip may present an "Edit With Wavepad" option if the program is installed.

When the file loads in WP, click FILE | SAVE AS, select mp3 and okay the prompts. 

For the sequence save, just load the WAV into Wavepad and do the same.  Done.

 

[VideoStudent]

Cool.  I used the free trial version of WavePad for a previous project.  It's nicely integrated with VideoPad.  But when the trial expired and I needed some more audio features I had to decide between buying the Pro version of VideoPad and the paid version of WavePad.  I emailed NCH to try to get a comparison of the audio features available in VideoPad vs. WavePad but they didn't have one.  I decided to buy the Pro version of VideoPad.  Still, I will keep it in mind.

I just realized I can right-click an audio clip and Open File With offers the option to open it in GoldWave because I did that before with Choose Another Program.  Then I can immediately save it from GoldWave as .mp3.  So that's even more time saved.  Problem solved.  Thanks again, borate!

[VideoStudent]

Okay, through experiment I found the answer:  If either of the clips on the left or right of the split have effects, the effects have to be the same in both clips for the Un-Split Clips menu option to display.

I started a new project, dragged an .mp4 file to the timeline, split it, and hovered over the split.  The Un-split option displays.

I unsplit it and it worked.

I added one video effect, then split the clip.

Again the unsplit option displayed.

I added another video effect to the left clip so that it had two effects and the right one only had one.

Now the unsplit option does not display.

So those are the rules of how it works.  Now that I know that I can make the effects the same on both clips, or just delete the effects on both clips, and then unsplit will display and I can unsplit the clips.

[borate]

UNsplit is available whenever an effect is added to a single clip before a split.

If split is made after adding an effect then both parts get the same effect if both were selected.  See the follow up below for more on this.

It's then a single clip in two sections, so when you add another effect, singly, to either part UNsplit isn't available.

[VideoStudent]

I may not be understanding your first sentence.

Your first sentence, no.  You can add any number of effects to a clip and then split it.  After the split, both clips have the same effects and Unsplit is available.

After a split if you add or change effects in the left clip or right clip and do not make them the same in both clips, then Unsplit is not available.  That is what I had done; after the split I added different effects to the left clip and right clip.  Because the effects were not the same in both clips, Unsplit was not available.  I deleted the effects that were different in each clip and then Unsplit became available.

For the over-under problem I used transparency animation to make the upper right clip go from opaque to transparent over 2.5 seconds while the lower right clip was flipping up during that time, and then made the upper right clip go back to opaque over the next 2.5 seconds while the lower right clip was flipping back down.  It's not really what I want, I really want the upper right clip to remain opaque the whole time that the lower right clip is flipping up *over* it and back down, but this is art, not science, and going transparent and back to opaque is an interesting effect in itself, so I'll just use that.

I don't think I'd want to scale the upper right clip to zero size and back during the flipping up and back of the lower right clip, but that would work too.

I don't think either of the rotate options rotate the clip through the Z-axis so that at the apogee of the animation you would be looking at the clip edge-on.  But the effects in your clip split_match.wmv do that, although with additional effects I wouldn't want for this purpose.  What effects did you use for that clip?

 

[borate]

Don't recall the construction of that WMV, but the rotation effects are prime suspects.  ROTATE will turn an image on edge.  In some VP same-numbered versions, there's only a single rotate effect, in others there are two.  There are several slight UI and feature differences in each release, and it is random which is installed.

As for split, yes, corrected:  when adding effects to a clip prior to splitting, UNsplit is available.  If effects are added after the split the same applies as long as both clips were selected when the effect was added.  If not, or if both clips do not have the same effects, UNsplit won't be there.

In recent versions, multi-selected clips instantly receive the same effect.  IMO that's not the best approach;  older versions didn't do this.   And there's a bug...
If the user has changed a default effect setting, only a single selected clip will carry user parameters, while the others get the effect's default parameters.

Multi-selected effect application is currently being reevaluated and may change.  For the present, what counts is that you have found what works for you.

[VideoStudent]

My version 8.97 of VP Pro has Rotate, which has Vertical Flip (degrees symbol), Horizontal Flip (degrees symbol), and Rotate (degrees symbol); and Rotate & Flip, which has Rotation (degrees symbol) with dropdown in which the only choices are 0, 90, 180, and 270; Horizontal Flip, which is a checkbox; and Vertical Flip, which is a checkbox.

-0-0-

I tried a test.  Put a clip in the upper left corner, added Rotate, added keyframe at zero with Rotate = 0.00 degrees there, added keyframe at 2.5 seconds with Rotate = 180 degrees there.  What that does is rotate the video clockwise in the plane of the video so that at 2.5 seconds it's upside down in the lower right corner.

Removed that effect and selected Rotate & Flip, for Rotation selected 180 from the dropdown.  It does the same thing as the first effect.

Neither rotate/rotation rotates on the Z-axis to show the clip on edge.

[borate]

The anomaly may be simply a naming convention...

   

Rotate to edge...   https://nch.invisionzone.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=2665

[VideoStudent]

More experimenting:  It's Rotate / Vertical Flip = 90 degrees that makes the video on edge so it's invisible (Horizonal Flip = 90 would do that too).  That effect is interesting too.  But the other video is still going behind rather than in front.  It doesn't allow me to flip negative 90 to flip it the other way.

Haha, yes. Rotate_to_edge is the same as my experiment, which I did before seeing your post with Rotate_to_edge.wmv.

[borate]

If you want to flip the other way, start with 360 degrees.

As for in front/back, higher track - or transparency may do it.

If a different issue/problem surfaces, please begin a new thread with specific title.