Pete31684

Shouldn't that read "how the animation module doesn't work"? But if broken is the best it's going to get, then I guess I can't say anything else.

Start with a 30fps clip. Add it to the timeline. Add a stopwatch, I tried milliseconds. Single frame stepping "sort of" works in that it will step, but you get four frames per hundred milliseconds instead of the 3 it should be. Enable "Show Previous and Next Frames". Now it just locks up when trying to frame step forwards.

I've done some more checking and installed it on Win 10, it's still buggy, but in a slightly different way. You can see it in your last video. Look at the VP cursor position. It displays 00, 33, 66, 67, 00, etc. That's obviously wrong in that the 66 shouldn't exist. The result is four steps every 100ms instead of three. On Win 8.1 (two different machines) it just locks up going forwards, and displays the wrong numbers going backwards.

Are we at cross purposes here? One can add a stopwatch, that's it, done. Takes about 3 seconds. It will count for hours and display the elapsed time on the screen. But it doesn't work for single stepping. It just locks up going forwards, and displays the wrong numbers going backwards. I don't see any other way to duplicate this other than manually creating 54,000 frames. Are you saying the stopwatch works for you? EDIT: Ah, you're suggesting creating a stopwatch, exporting that as a video, then using that as a clip and overlaying it? I think. It's just that you said "typewriter effect" so I assumed you meant "typewriter effect."

Exporting the overlays isn't the problem. It's creating 54,000 of them, by hand, that is the problem. It would be far more sensible for NCH to simply fix the bug in the stopwatch.

A half hour clip would need 54,000 hand made things .

Ok, so it's a programmatically generated video clip. I suppose we can call it whatever we want, but it still doesn't work. It locks up when you try to single frame step forwards. It displays the wrong time when single stepping backwards. Please try it instead of denying there is an issue.

It would be nice if that was the problem. And it would indeed make perfect sense (for anyone mad enough to try to use variable frame rate). But it isn't the actual issue. I am using a single track, just one. 30 fps. It is the only clip in the media bin, and appears once in the timeline. When adding a (for example) stopwatch, it will single step forwards one or two frames, then locks up. It simply won't move any further. When moving backwards, it doesn't lock up, but it does display the wrong numbers on every third frame.

As previouisly reported, when using 30 fps files, VP seems to have nothing but trouble. It took a few hundred versions (that really isn't an exaggeration) for single frame stepping to finally work properly. But adding things like timers, stopwatches etc never works. They always lock up when frame stepping forwards, and usually show the wrong figure when stepping backwards. How difficult is it to make a processor count properly?

If you try to download the beta version under this... VideoPad Video Editor v 13.68 for Windows You get a zip file, which in itself is a new thing, but it contains an Android installation package instead of Windows. Some of the other zip links seem to be screwed up too.

My experience of reporting bugs via the official channels is that it has zero effect.

Yes, sorry, the effects. Perhaps I should have been more specific... 1. Place a 30 fps clip on the timeline. 2. Add a millisecond stopwatch. 3. Try to step through the "Sequence Preview" (not the "Clip Preview") frame by frame during the stopwatch section. It sticks on two stopwatch values (x66ms) which it shouldn't even have (they should be x67ms). 4. Enable "Show Previous and Next Frames". Now it simply jams up and won't move forwards. Backwards it misses values. All of the timer effects have some sort of problem, but this one is very clear. -0-0- I've installed VideoPad on a different PC. Version 13.49 - Exactly the same results. VideoPad can't count.

Now the frame by frame timing seems to have been fixed, there's a new bug. At least I think it's new. With a 30 fps clip, the timers and counters no longer work. They stop frame forwards working, the clip just jams up. Play works, frame back works, but frame forwards doesn't work. And it's always on the 33ms frame, like the other issue.

This is an absolutely massive improvement. Genuinely huge. It's not quite perfect, but after a 10 minute test drive it appears to be good enough that the few minor remaining issues are trivial enough to be ignored or worked around... So far. Yay. VideoPad has learnt how to count to 30 without tripping itself up!

That simply doesn't explain what is seen. If it was the video itself that had duplicated frames, they would also show as duplicated in the "previous" and "current" frame. They do not. Only the "next" frame is wrong. They would also show duplicated frames in other software packages. They do not. Only VideoPad "next" frame gets them wrong. Nothing else. The file I am using was manually generated (in Express Animate as it happens). It consists of individual frames that simply contain the time and frame number. It was created at 30fps. No re-encloding, no frame rate conversion. The results are as follows (you'll have to put it into a text file to get the columns right):- Time previous current next 167 04 05 06 200 05 06 07 233 06 07 07 <- this is wrong 267 07 08 09 <- where has frame 08 gone? 300 08 09 10 333 09 10 10 <- this is wrong 367 10 11 12 <- where has frame 11 gone? It is definitely a bug in VideoPad, not a currupt video file. -0- Download the H.264 file from here... https://archive.org/details/VideoTestFiles/1024X76830FpsPhotoJpeg75.mov Single frame step through that, you'll see the bug in all its glory.

On Beta 13.39 they've done some work on the frames. Some work. But it's still not right. Single stepping through the frames (on 30 fps) now correctly shows the relevant frame, forwards and backwards so that's an improvement. However, on any frame that ends in 33ms the "next" frame is always wrong. It shows the current frame and the next frame as being the same frame. To clarify that, set it to "show previous and next frames", the "next" frame is always wrong on a 33ms interval. It shows the current frame as also being the next frame. The other two (at 00ms and 067ms) are correct (this bug existed previously). Further, when stopping play, the previous and next frames are not updated. It displays what they were last at before hitting play (this bug also existed previously). Also, when stopping play, the time counter bears little to no relation to the actual time of the frame being displayed. Tapping next/previous frame will often have it jumping substantially in order to correct itself. I've seen it as far out as 200ms - that's six frames! (and this bug also existed previously). So, in summary, a small improvement, but still a long, long way to go.

https://www.nchsoftware.com/beta/ 13.38 on there. When installed it shows 13.37

It would be nice to believe so. I've reported bugs relating to this issue at least 25 times since 2016. They occasionally fiddle with it, sometimes fix part of it, but in the process introduce another bug directly related, but slightly different. As far as I can tell there hasn't been a single version without a bug of one sort or another directly related to frame accuracy.

I've just downloaded the latest beta version. Website says it's 13.38, it displays as 13.37 so I'm guessing it's one of those two. Frame accuracy is still wrong (remember, this is after over seven years now), doesn't appear to have been touched, so it's obviously not one of the issues that comes under the banner of "work done under the hood". It's also clearly something NCH don't consider to be very important. Frame accuracy on a video editing package is of absolute, utmost, fundamental importance. Without guaranteed frame accuracy, a video editing package really isn't a video editing package at all. It's just something that will nail a few video clips and stills together, with no consideration to timing. I liken it to a tape measure. It doesn't matter how many brilliant features it gets such as auto pay out and rewind, variable speed rewind, laser markers, built in GPS etc, if the inches/mm markings are wrong, the entire gadget is utterly useless. Think of frame accuracy as the inches/mm. If they are wrong, the entire software is utterly useless. I simply cannot use it at all for my purposes. Pity, as I like the rest of it.

Just to be clear, everything seems to work fine in the clip preview. It's the sequence preview where things go wrong.

Trying to settle on a video editor to use all the time, I tested a few over the last couple of weeks. Rather than typing out a full new post, here are the notes I'd made for my own purposes, with a few extra notes put in for clarity. So I still haven't really found one, VideoPad has the nicest UI, useability and effects, but the one problem mentioned below kinda spoils it for me. SHOTCUT: Correctly deals with frames, but some of the effects are terrible. Especially the old cinema type. "Scratches" and "Sepia" are appalling. Editing the time line is pretty much unuseable with it chopping things off by itself, bouncing and jumping around making it impossible to put a clip exactly (or even remotely) where it's wanted. Had several full crashes in the space of a few hours. DAVINCI RESOLVE: Seems to need an absolute beast of a PC to run without it being slow and laggy. I therefore can't test it properly. It does seems to correctly deal with frames but it can't even play a single, simple clip on my machine. OPENSHOT: Frames are numbered 1 to 25, or 1 to 30, instead of 0 to 24 or 0 to 29. I couldn't find anything on the net about this, and I couldn't find any settings to put it right. It's therefore discounted on this one item alone. I can't begin to imagine the number of problems that would cause down the line when editing. VIDEOPAD: The effects I tried, whilst sometimes lacking much in the way of customisation, at least look good. Old cinema effects are excellent. Deshaker is very effective. But I'm really struggling with the timeline. With a 30 fps clip in the timeline, frame forward and backwards result in 000 033 067 100 133 167 200 (which is correct). But counting down gets 200 167 134 133 100 067 034 033 000 - Which would cause nothing but headaches when editing using a hardware controller (or even just the keyboard). The display should really be in frames anyway. Or ideally, both. Due to this, it sometimes also gets the next/previous frame display wrong, occasionally showing current and next as being the same frame. Which is kinda useless. If a 25 fps clip, and a 30 fps clip are both put on the timeline, it gets even worse. This is a massive shame because I really like the rest of it. If NCH fixed this issue, I'd go for VideoPad without hesitation, but I've been reporting this (or similar, closely related bugs) since about version 5 (!) seven years ago. It got meddled with from time to time, changed, but never fixed. Just changed one bug for another. Either I'm the only one who considers it a problem, or NCH themselves consider it trivial. Either way, I can't use it. Massive shame.

I actually prefer the second one, but it's not really a big deal to me. Wherever it goes, I'd soon get used to it and it would feel normal. What I cannot get used to is it moving around. Imagine taking your car in for regular services, and each time you got it back the pedals and steering wheel were in a different place. You'd go nuts. And the garage would soon lose all its customers.

NCH must be looking at this from a very different viewpoint than me (and I suspect many others). Here's the result of this "feature"... I find a bug, so I download the latest version to see if they've fixed it. I install that version, the play button is in the wrong place. I install it again. Play button is still in the wrong place. I install it again. Play button is still in the wrong place. I install it again. Play button is now where it should be, but the effects are in a stupid order. I install it again, Play button is still where it should be, but the effects are in a different stupid order. I install it again, the effects are now in an acceptable order, but the play button is back in the wrong place and the "close" button on the effects window has disappeared. I install it again... And so it goes on. And on. And on. Each time, a different thing gets meddled with. It might take twenty installs before things are where I got used to them the first time round or where they should be. The only way this is going to affect "marketing" is by making me uninstall it and download something else for trial instead. "We randomly turn new features off until it accepted by majority of the users" How can a feature be accepted by users if they don't have it because their particular install didn't install it? Am I missing something obvious here?

Done. I'll be pleasantly surprised if anything comes of it

This has been mentioned a few times on here, and I struggle to get my head round it. If VideoPad is installed, you get one set of features. If you then reinstall the same version, from the same installation file, you get different features. Examples being: The play button moving around (unbelievably irritating), the effects being in a different order (just as irritating), the way to save effects changing (the top right cross or the close button - even more irritating), etc. There will be many that I haven't even spotted. There might be features that I am totally unaware of because I have to keep reinstalling it until the play button is in the right place. That particular installation might remove another feature. To my way of thinking, whoever at NCH believes this is a good idea has either got some sort of mental problem or a very warped sense of humour. Can anyone shed any light on WTF is going on? Why on earth do they do this?