addressed Problems with RTL (Right-to-Left) Subtitling

[IMANWriter]

Hello everyone,

There are odd problems with subtitling in languages that appear from right to left, in my case Persian (Farsi). The problems include:

• Wild behavior with regards to punctuation. For example period (.), comma (،), exclamation mark (!) appear reversely in a line i.e. if I put them at the beginning of the line they appear at the end. and vice versa. Some other punctuation marks work just fine, including question mark (؟). Punctuation in the middle of the line (with one or more words both before and after the punctuation mark) works without a problem. The workaround right now is to beat VideoPad at its own game i.e. put the punctuation mark at the end of the line if you want it to actually appear at the beginning, and vice versa.
• Uncontrollable behavior with regards to numbers at the beginning of the line. Whenever numbers (digits, obviously) are supposed to appear at the beginning of the line, they actually appear at the end. This time the workaround for punctuation marks does not work i.e. even if you put the number at the end of the line, it remains there instead of appearing at the beginning. In other words, there is no way to start a line with a number without it appearing at the end. Numbers in the middle of the line (with one or more words both before and after the number) work perfectly, as do numbers at the end of the line.
• Unknown behavior with English words and Persian words in the same line. I am yet to discover a regular pattern for how VideoPad treats a line with both Persian and English (Latin) words. All I can tell you right now is you have to play with the line to (hopefully) get it right.
• Other problems which I hope other users who try to subtitle in Persian (Farsi)/Arabic/Dari an other RTL languages, will bring up in this topic.

I live and die by VideoPad. It's the perfect program for me for simplicity, speed, versatility and quite some other features, as evidenced by creating this topic in hopes of the problems with RTL subtitling going away in future updates.

Thanks, in advance, for everyone contributing to this topic.

[Nationalsolo]

Hi

The left to right and right to left configuration of VP text is a problem and has cropped up before. The workaround is to use a translator program, such as Google Translate. Type in your English text (or other language) on the left and then Copy/Paste the translated text (on the right)  directly into the VP editor.

I don't speak Persian but this is the result of doing this with the phrase "The cat sat on the mat in front of the fire."

Does this look correct and is it the right way around?

It might be possible to edit this (format the line length etc.)  but the text editor may not get it right. If you speak Persian you will be able to tell.

Nat

[borate]

File a suggestion with specifics - perhaps point to this thread.

https://www.nch.com.au/suggestions/index.html?

[IMANWriter]

5 hours ago, Nationalsolo said:

Hi

The left to right and right to left configuration of VP text is a problem and has cropped up before. The workaround is to use a translator program, such as Google Translate. Type in your English text (or other language) on the left and then Copy/Paste the translated text (on the right)  directly into the VP editor.

I don't speak Persian but this is the result of doing this with the phrase "The cat sat on the mat in front of the fire."

Does this look correct and is it the right way around?

It might be possible to edit this (format the line length etc.)  but the text editor may not get it right. If you speak Persian you will be able to tell.

Nat

Hello Nat. Thank you for responding.

There is absolutely no problem with Persian TEXT. The problems begin when I use punctuation, digits, or a mix of Persian AND English in the same line.

Here's an screenshot as an example:

https://gofile.io/d/G5iO7w

It should say "1 day" but as you can see it says (day 1).

By the way, I did try the Google Translate workaround anyway, but it doesn't work for punctuation, digits, or Persian-English mix.

[IMANWriter]

2 hours ago, borate said:

File a suggestion with specifics - perhaps point to this thread.

https://www.nch.com.au/suggestions/index.html?

I did so a few weeks ago following the in-app "Send bug report" option, but I just did that again using your link. Thanks for the advice.

[Nationalsolo]

Hi IMANWriter

That's a problem!  I tried using brackets in the translator text to indicate a place within  Persian the text where it might be possible to add some English or numbers..  e.g. 

گربه () روی تشک نشست

However, trying to enter text within the brackets after pasting it to the VP editor doesn't work as it splits everthing up and(?reverses the Persian).

If you use the Google translator and add a new line where you wish to insert western letters is a possible work around???

It seems you can (or might be able to) add western characters to the left of the Persian text at the New Line position without altering the remaining line or text order.

Does this look right?......

Not sure at the moment how to make this one line.

Nat

[IMANWriter]

11 minutes ago, Nationalsolo said:

Hi IMANWriter

That's a problem!  I tried using brackets in the translator text to indicate a place within  Persian the text where it might be possible to add some English or numbers..  e.g. 

گربه () روی تشک نشست

However, trying to enter text within the brackets after pasting it to the VP editor doesn't work as it splits everthing up and(?reverses the Persian).

If you use the Google translator and add a new line where you wish to insert western letters is a possible work around???

It seems you can (or might be able to) add western characters to the left of the Persian text at the New Line position without altering the remaining line or text order.

Does this look right?......

Not sure at the moment how to make this one line.

Nat

There you go.

I forgot to include brackets () when I explained problems with punctuation marks, but they behave the same irrational way periods (.) and commas (،) do. They work fine within a line, but appear backwards at the beginning and at the end of a line.

Mixing English words with Persian words is a problem. I think, with or without brackets. I believe inserting English words in a single line between Persian words transposes the words/phrases on the two sides of the English words.

Putting English words on a separate line is obviously not a feasible solution, even if it works as a workaround. (Your screenshot looks correct.)

Anyway, the point, I think, is clearly made. VP is better than having such problems with RTL languages. I really hope these issues can be fixed in the near future. I'm ready to test out different scenarios if it can help make a permanent fix, rather than playing with workarounds the way I've been doing (sometimes unsuccessfully) since I started using VP a few years back.

Thanks for your help.

[H_G]

Disappointed that this problem isn't fixed yet

I uninstall the software until another time

[borate]

This seems to exist outside of VideoPad and extends into WordPad/MS Word as well:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9613613/why-words-are-shuffled-when-i-insert-english-words-in-any-arabic-urdu-persian-te

The issue may not be solvable, and it's ultimately up to the user to write mixed-directional text correctly (as seen in the answer to that StackOverflow post).

[H_G]

On 9/1/2022 at 8:13 PM, borate said:

The issue may not be solvable, and it's ultimately up to the user to write mixed-directional text correctly (as seen in the answer to that StackOverflow post).

This is normal when the users is from Middle East region.

I hope you will take into consideration that users may be from there as well

When I tried doing it in WordPad, there's no problem. Ctrl + Right Shift resolved the problem, which isn't the case with VideoPad.  Even with Ctrl + Right Shift the problem remains.

The problem isn't only on subtitling but also on Simple text.

[borate]

Be sure to file a bug report...  https://www.nch.com.au/software/bug.html?software=VideoPad

Refer to this thread...  https://nch.invisionzone.com/topic/33089-problems-with-rtl-right-to-left-subtitling/#comment-107228