Has my VideoPad become corrupted?

[Miggy]

Long story short, I posted yesterday about using masks crashing VideoPad. I have found out today that it is not the project I'm on, because it crashed on a much simpler project as well. One time it crashed and I wasn't even doing anything with it, it was just up in the background while I was previewing a video in Media Player.

I uninstalled it (vs. 6.32, but I had this same issue with 6.31) and reinstalled it, but noticed something strange. I wanted to manually delete all the files in the installation folder but I got an error message that I couldn't access it (c:\programfiles\nchsfoftware\videopad  ... or whatever the exact wording is). I have 3 other NCH Software programs and I can access all their installation folders. I wanted to install to a different folder, even a different drive, but the installation process seems to just pick a location and you have no choice.

Just now, it crashed while I was exporting a video.

I have never had this problem with VideoPad before. I have done all the normal steps for crashes (updated driver, clear cache, etc). What's my next step?

[borate]

Video driver up to date?  How's the C:\ drive's free space?  Tried toggling "hardware acceleration" in OPTIONS|DISK tab?

For a more thorough uninstall consider REVO.  Take care not to delete anything that is not VP related.

[Miggy]

Yes, I've done all those steps.

Would you check if your VP installation folder is accessible? My Wave Pad, Express Burn, and VideoPad installation folders are accessible, but VP isn't. I don't know if that's intentional or if that's a sign something's wrong.

[borate]

Not certain to what you're referring, but if it's "C:\Program Files (x86)\NCH Software" then yes, that directory (folder) is accessible and should contain past VP installer files.

[Miggy]

Yes, navigate to the NCH Software directory and see if you can open up the VideoPad installation folder. I get an error message that it isn't accessible. I can't look at the containing files and I can't delete it to start over.

[borate]

Yup, opens normally.  Sounds like a Windows permissions issue?  You might also run a check on your RAM.

[Miggy]

Okay, the oddness deepens.

I cannot change (or even view) the permissions for the VideoPad folder. I tried everything suggestion I found in searches, but it just refuses to even consider letting me have control again.

So I found a utility that searches what process is tied to files / folders. It said that BrCntCtr (Brothers control center - for my printer) was tied to it - as well as my other NCH folders. I killed that process and now the VideoPad folder is gone! However VideoPad still runs. I'll have time to test tomorrow to see if it's still crashing.

[borate]

If you don't already employ an imaging utility, consider it.  When things go bad the system can be quickly restored to the state it was in when the image was created.

Acronis True Image, TeraByte's IFW, EaseUS Todo and, Macrium come to mind.  Some are free.  Windows 7 and 10 have a System Restore, but it's basic and deprecated.

[Miggy]

Thanks, Borate. I think I might start adding that to my regular PC maintenance.

Since I hadn't before, I'll see what Windows system restore can do for me. It's worth a try!

I just wish I knew what caused this.

[borate]

System Restore, built into Windows, may do the job for you.  But be aware that Microsoft suggests using other imaging programs.

[Miggy]

Well... apparently the system backup / restore function is mostly meant for Windows 7. You can use it in Windows 10 but it doesnt create restore points automatically like it did in 7. I would have had to have enabled it.

I worked with my project for a few hours today and no crashes, even when working with masks. So.... maybe it fixed itself? With these intermittent issues it's dufficult to know for sure.

[borate]

Don't confuse System Image Backup with similarly named tools in Windows.  There are no restore points.  This is a total restoration and takes time.

It works in both Windows 7 and 10...when it succeeds.  Have an external drive plugged in.

Access is via Control Panel|FILE HISTORY.  Look at the left-bottom corner of the window.  On the next page, at the upper-right, click Create a System Image.

Again, Microsoft suggests using another vendor's product.

[Miggy]

Thanks Borate. I will look into all those options after I redo my system.

VP is still crashing, just not as often. Its also exhibit other weird behaviors. I manually deleted the install folders and reinstalled twice now. The first time it came up with a completely different menu layout  (example, the load clips from a separate peoject was missing) even though the About... screen showed ver 6.32. A second reinstall brought it back to normal. 

Im about finished with my current project, so I'm going to limp along to finish it and then do a complete system redo.

 

[Miggy]

On 12/28/2018 at 8:16 PM, borate said:

If you don't already employ an imaging utility, consider it.  When things go bad the system can be quickly restored to the state it was in when the image was created.

Acronis True Image, TeraByte's IFW, EaseUS Todo and, Macrium come to mind.  Some are free.  Windows 7 and 10 have a System Restore, but it's basic and deprecated.

I have now finished with the clean reinstall of Windows and so far VP is running great. And the icons for the VP files are back to normal.

Of those options, I picked EaseUS Todo. It has a free version to use with an option of buying the full version later, which I might consider.

Thanks again!

[borate]

Good to hear.  An imager, like Todo, is perhaps the most important utility you can have.  Use it regularly, especially prior to making major software changes.

[Miggy]

I spoke too soon. VP is crashing again when I'm working with masks.

I had a theory about changing the cache directory, since before it seemed to crash less after I cleaned that out. But that didn't help.

It lets me load back automatically to where I left off, but it's still irritating.

Is this just something I'm going to have to live with?

[borate]

Not seeing other recent reports of this behavior.

If might be helpful to know your system's specs:  RAM, CPU, GPU, free space on C:\,. and to have a description of what mask manipulation is attempted when the app crashes.

[Miggy]

RAM = 16 gigs (2400 speed)

CPU = AMD Ryzan 2700X (4 gig)

GPU = Nvidia Geforce GTX 970

Free space on C;\ = I got a new terabyte SSD to reinstall my system and most of that is free. I have a 100 gig partition on my original SSD for the cache files.

Description of mask operation: taking a video of someone and isolating them to put as overlay over another video so that they're in another location. It requires creating a keyframe every half second or sometimes quarter of a second to make it smooth. However, it also crashed today while I was exporting said project.

[Nationalsolo]

Hi Miggy

VP version 7.0

Although a time consuming process I have tried this. There seems to be a problem however.....

• Loaded a 10 second clip with moving object. (Dinghy sailing across the FOV)
• Created a mask around dinghy every 30 seconds from the start and created a keyframe at each point.   To do this I created a mask around the dinghy on the first clip frame. Made a keyframe. Moved preview cursor line along 30 seconds -  dragged the mask along to new dinghy position in the frame -  readjusted the mask points to match the new dinghy outline - created new keyframe and so on.
• Unticked Mask inside box
• Added Transparent background with Opacity set to 0%
• Exported the result

There were no crashes on a old slow Vista system at any point  BUT....

Although Mask moved smoothly across screen in the export it moved faster than the dinghy image.  it reached the final position before the dinghy caught up. I am pretty sure there is a problem here. In view of this result I didn't do an export of the result placed on a different background as you were intended to do

From the crashes point of view; do you wait after each point adjustment for VP to update the mask before creating new points or a new keyframe. You might be piling up a queue of jobs for the program to cope with.

One thing I did do was to use the OUT marker to stop the clip at the last keyframe. I am now wondering if the keyframe animation speed has been linked to the length of the cut clip (making it run faster) instead of keeping it at the same speed as the whole clip which of course does not change speed.

LATER:   I can confirm that if the clip is shortened then the speed of the mask keyframe animation is proportionately increased and will get out of step with the clip . I moved the the OUT marker to the end of the preview timeline so all the clip played and found the animation of the keyframes was corrected. This may be a bug as one would expect the keyframes would match the clip however short it may have been clipped.

Nat

[Miggy]

National,

Thanks so much for testing this.

As far as waiting for the clip to process, I'm not going to do that after moving each point. If that's required, I'll give up on masks or find another program. As I've been saying, VP should not update the whole clip after every little adjustment, but should wait until you're finished. Closing out of the effects window would seem to be a good trigger for the program to update the whole clip with your finalized adjustments. Seems like doing it for every little move you make is just asking for trouble, and I can't figure out why it was made that way.

Anyway, rant over... what I will try is to wait for it to finish processing before I move on to the next keyframe.

Also another thing I'm going to test out is turning off my secondary display. There's no actual 2nd monitor, but I run sound through HDMI to a receiver, which makes Windows think there's a second monitor (why after all these years you still cannot turn off a 2nd non-existent display when you're running audio through HDMI is another rant). I think I made this change somewhere around the time I started having problems, so it might be a possibility although I don't know why it would affect VP.

RE: the issue you discovered while doing the tests. I've never run into that, but the clips I mask I already have trimmed down to 10 or 30 seconds (or whatever) and made it into its own video before doing the mask.

BTW, do you have any problems when moving points? My issue is that some parts of the masks are really hard to see the points, and I end up accidentally creating new points. I found out that this is a problem because the keyframes don't simply save the shape of the mask as I initially assumed, but are saved point positions. If you add or delete points later in the clip, it messes up previous points because it's either taken away points (collapsing the mask in areas) or adding points (making sections of the shape squeezed and mushed together). Also I wish the function of the cursor changing to "move all" function could be disabled. I will occasionally accidentally move the whole mask and then have to move it back in exactly the right position.

[Miggy]

Here's the video I made with this project. As you can see, the masking was to pull my cousin out of her video and into the new environment. There are all kinds of effect I put into this, but the only thing that ever gave me an trouble was animating the masks. There's just something about that my system doesn't like. I hadn't progressed to animating masks yet when I had my previous system, so I don't know if it would have given me problems as well or just the new system.

Anyway, here's a minute and a half of silliness for your enjoyment!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBYsPsLLjmM

[c_major]

If a particular project always causing crash. Could you share it on Google Drive etc.? We'll try to reproduce the problem see if there is a bug in the program.

[Miggy]

c-major,

 

It isn't any particular project. It's any time I'm animating a mask and moving the points. I *think* it only does it when the clip preview is full screen, as I don't recall it doing it otherwise. I have to put a lot of points when masking people, so maybe VP just gets overwhelmed.

I will say it doesn't happen nearly as often since I did a complete clean reinstall of my OS.

[Miggy]

In addition to that, you wouldnt be able to see the issue just from a project, as you would need to try to animate a mask to see if it crashed on your end.

What you could do is take a 10 second clip of someone and apply a mask to isolate them from the background. Apply keyframes every half second or however often is needed for how much the person moves. Go into full screen clip previee mode to move the points.

That should tell you if its an issue with VP or just with my system.

[c_major]

Thanks Miggy.

When do you get the crash? While moving the dots (updating the clip) or exporting?

What's the preview resolution you are using?