Adventures with Audio and Video Synch

[RonHiler]

I'm posting this only to give the devs a datapoint. I've already resolved my issues by reverting backward (to version 7.10), and at this point have no intention of installing anything more recent (as I've spent what seems like hours trying to find workarounds and fixes to what I consider to be critical bugs). So you can take from it what you will.

I will say in advance, that while I may sound critical of the program, I am not trying to be. I love VP, I think it is an awesome editor, and I've used it since version 3 (several years now). So please don't think I'm bashing, I'm only providing this information so the devs can use it to maybe look for fixes (or not, it's up to them).

So, here is how I use VP. I record ~1 hour to as high as 90 minute game videos in TS format (I don't know much about the TS file type, whether it's a container or what, but it has A/V). I also record along with that my commentary (same length) as a WAV file. Along with those main files is an intro (7 seconds, MP4 container A/V), and 3 outro files (about 20 seconds each, 3 AVI files). All of these get put into tracks and the whole shebang gets edited down to about an hour long (give or take 10 minutes) for upload to YouTube. I used to do AVI exports, but have switched to MP4 (H264 and AACX compression) at 1920x1080 @ 29.97 fps.

So, in terms of audio synch, I'll first talk about version 7.1 which is what I use now, and contrast that afterward with version 8.71 (the last one I tried). This is my workflow in 7.10

1. Import all files
2. Synch game sound with video (generally I find the game sound is slightly late, and needs to be adjusted by about a tenth to a quarter of a second). So I disconnect the A/V and move the audio track. This adjustment synchs the game sound across the ENTIRE hour of video (contrast that with what I've found below in version 8.71).
3. Add the commentary track and synch that to the game video (since this is recorded entirely separately, the time offset is variable). Again, synching this at the beginning synchs it across the ENTIRE hour of video.
4. Edit the three tracks (one video, two audio) as a unit. This often involves adding some transitions (most fades) and effects (mostly audio amplifications)
5. Add the intros and outros. Also some minor transitions (cross fades) and effects (audio amplifications).
6. Export as MP4 as described above.
7. Ready for upload to YT.

Now, let's contrast this to what steps I have to take in 8.71. I will bold the additional steps required to get usable video.

1. Import all files
2. Synch game sound with video (generally I find the game sound is slightly late, and needs to be adjusted by about a tenth to a quarter of a second). So I disconnect the A/V and move the audio track. This adjustment does not synch the game sound across the ENTIRE hour of video.
2a. The front end of the audio is synched to the video, but the back is not. Generally I find the game sound to be 3-5 seconds behind the video near the end of the hour. What I have to do is find a synch point near the end (something with a distinctive sound that I can link to the video), determine where it SHOULD be, subtract where it actually is, and add a  "Speed Change" effect to the audio track (unchecking the "Keep audio pitch unchanged" checkbox). This speed change allows me to keep the front of the audio where it is, while moving the back to align with where it ought to be in the video. Since it is only 3-5 seconds change over the course of an hour long video, no noticeable change in the pitch can be heard, so this gives me a usable game sound track that is synched perfectly with the video across the entire hour.
3. Add the commentary track and synch that to the game video (since this is recorded entirely separately, the time offset is variable. Again, synching this at the beginning synchs it across the ENTIRE hour of video.
4. Edit the three tracks (one video, two audio) as a unit. This often involves adding some transitions (most fades) and effects (mostly audio amplifications)
5. Add the intros and outros. Also some minor transitions (cross fades) and effects (audio amplifications).
6. Export as MP4 as described above.
6a. The resulting MP4 video export now has the sound de-synched (by roughly half a second) across the entire hour long video. I must now re-import the video I just exported back into VP. Of course, this consists only of two tracks (one video and one audio).
6b. Disconnect the audio from video and move the audio track about half a second to re-synch it with the video (this re-synchs across the entire hour). Re-export it again with the same settings as described above for MP4. This new export is now synched (audio and video).
7. Ready for upload to YT.

I will note here that exporting to AVI container gives precisely the same results and MP4 does (but it's a nice improvement from what I was getting in versions 8 - 8.69 where AVI was completely unusable at all, someone DID fix the AVI export at least to match the MP4 export, so that was nice).

Another note I will make is that in version 8.71, the outro videos (that are meant to be 20 seconds long exactly) are for some reason being imported in as 20.4 seconds, which absolutely is not right (I made them EXACTLY 20 seconds on purpose). This might have something to do with the synch issues, or not, just something to look at perhaps. In version 7.1 these files come in correctly as 20 seconds long.

The number of additional steps required in version 8.71 is too fiddly for me, and takes up far too much time. As I do five of these a week, I can't spend that much time futzing about with the synch issues. I have found version 7.1 doesn't have these issues and I can move along nicely once I have the initial tracks synched up. Hopefully the devs can take a look at these issues and get things fixed.

If you like, I can upload a project I did with version 8.71 and you can export it yourself to see the 0.5 second synch issue. You could also check out what I had to do to the game audio file to get it to synch across the entire video. If you want it, let me know.

I hope this is helpful. If you guys could fix all these synch issues, I would love to use the most current version of the program. But until that happens, I must stay with what works without causing a whole lot of extra work for me. I've done a few videos now with 7.1 and have not found any critical issues (the most annoying one is I can't use the "enter" key to finalize effect/transitions, I have to use the mouse to click the "X" to close the box, but I can live with that, it's no big deal).

Ron

Edited August 18, 2020 by RonHiler
edited for clarity

[borate]

Recently, AVI sync issues were solved.  With the current beta, speed change sync issues have also been remedied.  That's not to say that this addresses your specifics.

https://www.nchsoftware.com/beta/vpsetup.exe    (Subject to frequent revisions)

Let's take a look at your project folder, per the usual easy 4-steps...

1. With your completed project on the timeline, click the 3-lined 'hamburger' menu, top-left.  Click FILE | BACK UP PROJECT FILES TO FOLDER.  Specify a folder.  Click SELECT FOLDER.
2.  Using the PC file manager, locate the saved folder and upload it to a free server - Google Drive, MS OneDrive, etc.*  (Don't upload the export or just the VPJ file.)
3.  Get a shared, public link and, if given a choice, check "ANYone can view."
4.  Paste that link here, or click the folder, above top-right in this forum, and message it to me.  This is private and won't be shared.
*    Before uploading, right-click the folder, click PROPERTIES.  Look at the File Size to confirm that it's not too big for the free space on the server.

[RonHiler]

Alright, here you go. This was edited with version 8.70 or 8.71 (not sure which, but it's the same either way).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rhi02ghcasBoP_lB5GxqWpnwY-Tu-Ll1/view?usp=sharing

Note that this is an edited version, so the speed change on audio 1 is applied (and therefore is synched across the entire hour long video). If you want to see the 3-5 second desych, you'll have to undo that (easiest way is to add a fresh copy of the gameplay video, synch it at the front, and then check the back end to see how far off it is).

Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[borate]

Reach your own conclusions on the following where beta v8.73 was used.  Even if the release # is the same, the beta build on the server varies from day-to-day.

First, MediaInfo lists the :20 end video and patrons as 20.515 and 20.428 respectively.  VP loads them as 20.481 and 20.350.

Next, the source game file was overlaid on track 3 and head-synched to your track 1.  No UNlinking.  At the end, PV video was dead on but audio was way out.       That may be attributable to the TS format, and has been reported.

First converting the file to mp4 appears to fix the slippage issue.  But for the slight offset you noted, it's in sync throughout.

Finally, your VPJ as submitted and exported with your settings stayed synched IMO.

[RonHiler]

Well, okay. I tried. Looks like I'll be sticking with 7.10 then indefinitely. Good luck.

[borate]

Until the TS sync issue is addressed, converting the file first should take care of that.  It appeared to here.  But if v7.10 does the job, stick with it.  There's no obligation to update, and you can always test-drive the latest for free.