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takis

AutoSnap and more problems

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Dear friends,

First of all, I would like to say that I use VP for many years, from the era of the early versions.

I am a pianist and I make small videos for my piano covers and lessons, usually 3-5 minutes duration. VP was fast, flexible and easy to use.

Upgrades are always welcome, some really gave a boost, but others unfortunately proved to be huge step backs.

First and biggest issue, the automatic snap! I do not know why the developers listen to every person asking nonsense, but auto-snap is a huge pain in the butt of the serious users.

After all, dear gentlemen of NCH, VP is supposed to be a professional tool, it is in it's title 😉. We do not use it to make selfie slideshows, neither clips from our vacation. We need to have full access to the timeline editor, and this means that we have to place clips and audio aside and use them later to fill gaps. YES, we need to keep and control gaps in the timeline. How are we supposed to do this, when every time we shorten a small part, all clips come to the left  trying to snap??? By pressing the ALT key every time? Not practical. This is a huger burden for professional editing. 

I can understand you might want to satisfy the amateur user, who just wants to join 2-3 clips, but we kindly ask you, please, at least put a check box in the options to disable the cursed thing!😖

After version 6, at some guys request (who wanted to have VP look like Adobe's products), you changed the colors to dark gray with blue audio wave. This is totally unfriendly to everyone who spends hours zooming and matching audio. Especially the blue wave, when selected is very hard to see clearly. The best colors in my opinion where the original before version 5. Crisp and clear. Since this is my personal opinion, It would be nice if colors could be s selectable.

In the latest version there are some awful vertical white lines on the timeline of many audio clips. The appear only after a specific zoom. I suppose this is a bug, since they did not exist in previous versions. Again, they make it impossible to work with the editor. Please see a sample here: https://ibb.co/m8QKVYy  I reported the issue to tech support and waiting for feedback.

Thank you!

 

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Hi

The regular thin white lines you see on the audio track are not meant to be there. AFAIK the developers used them as timing marks for testing. You may have downloaded a Beta version where these were present before the files on the server were updated. Try a new download with the latest version.. The latest version is 7.39

Nat

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1 hour ago, Nationalsolo said:

Hi

The regular thin white lines you see on the audio track are not meant to be there. AFAIK the developers used them as timing marks for testing. You may have downloaded a Beta version where these were present before the files on the server were updated. Try a new download with the latest version.. The latest version is 7.39

Nat

Dear Nat,

Thank you for your help. It is the official version 7.39, downloaded a few days ago directly from the NCH website. I will try to download it again. These lines do not appear in all audio clips. A few are immune, but I cannot figure out a pattern. I sent a help-request to support and I wait their answer.

Takis

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1 hour ago, borate said:

 image.png

Request that they bring it back by clicking the chevron at the top-right of the interface and filing a suggestion.

Thank you,

I remember you mentioned it before, but did not know it was the v6.2.

I just downloaded it from your link and will give it a try.  However, if I can't license it, I might have reduced functionality... Anyways, first things first, I will try it to see the anti-snap functionality. I will definitely suggest putting such a toggle to the latest version, as well as giving us a choice to "whiten" program's skin.

Thanks again!

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Hi,

We are working on auto-snap and trying to make it only snap when the clips are close to each other. Hopefully that would give more control to users.

The white lines are beat markers. VideoPad analyst music tracks and marks the beats with the white lines. In fact it could be helpful for what Takis is doing.

Finally, regarding dark UI, we've decided to make the change for all our products. That was not a trivial decision and we do carefully considered when it was made.

Kind regards.

 

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3 hours ago, c_major said:

Hi,

We are working on auto-snap and trying to make it only snap when the clips are close to each other. Hopefully that would give more control to users.

The white lines are beat markers. VideoPad analyst music tracks and marks the beats with the white lines. In fact it could be helpful for what Takis is doing.

Finally, regarding dark UI, we've decided to make the change for all our products. That was not a trivial decision and we do carefully considered when it was made.

Kind regards.

 

Good morning (it is morning here🙂)

It is great news that you are working on auto-snap! A close-proximity snap sounds like a good idea, but how close?  For example, I am working with many parts of a song on the timeline, usually different organs. They all have to by synced, normalized and equalized, in order to orchestrate the full song. Needless to say, for this task autosnap is a more of a problem than an asset! Of course I will wait to test your "close proximity" solution, but an on-off button in the options menu would easily and definitely solve this problem.

Considering the white lines,  please resolve it... They do not follow the beat, as a matter of fact their frequency is the same -and  they are so many- making it impossible to work with waveforms under zoom. They also appear only in some clips, while others are free of them. Even if it was a successful beat counter (which is not), it is of no use to music production, (where the beat is not necessary the biggest spike in the wave). I kindly request, please get rid of them, they are very annoying...

Concerning the program's skin, I respect your decision. However, as a meticulous user of your software, I will be honest: Does it look prettier? YES. Is it more practical and easier to the eyes? NO. 

Especially in the latest version, in my opinion the skin is also too overloaded with buttons and gadgets...

Finally,  I will be crystal clear: VP is one of the best, if not THE best, audio-video software that I ever worked on. And I have been working with many,  like Edius and Cubase. VP offers a powerful engine, with many integrated features and effects, while maintaining a simple and practical functionality. Of course we are happy  with improvements, but without compromising its values.

Thank you

Takis

 

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During the past few days, I have been suffering a lot due to these white so-called beat lines (by the way, they do not follow the beat at all), as well as the unpredictable behavior of auto-snap...

I do not know why, but in 7.39 auto-snap has a mind of its own, the ALT button does not always prevent it from snapping everything, in all track lines, completely messing up my project.  The fluffy "ears" newly added by programmers to pull the clips, also make it more difficult to see the edges of each clip. And auto-snap is always waiting there for your mistake, to snap everything into oblivion...

I went back to version 6.2, where my salvation waited in form of a snap-killing magnet button. And indeed it was there, bringing smile again to my face! But.... Version 6.2 seems to delay during playback, creating a bigger problem. I press play/stop and it takes seconds to respond.

I got desperate, to the point of thinking to return to good old version 4.40, where the only problem was a moderately mean auto-snap... But unfortunately VPJ project files are NOT backwards compatible! I get a message "cannot load project,try a newer version".

Help! gentlemen of NCH. Please fix all these bugs and KILL this mean auto-snap feature!  

Takis

 

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As you may have noted, the anti-snap feature is being worked on.  I've seen no problem with it, especially if clips are first selected and (right-click) grouped.

If there's a mistake, immediately press <ctrl-Z>, to backtrack.  In the next version expect an OPTIONS checkbox to turn off beat lines, as noted above.

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I do not know why, but I have delays and a sluggish ALT response. I re-installed, but still the same. Maybe there are leftovers in the registry from the previous versions, I will try a reg cleaner or remove them manually as a last resort.

Thanks again for your help with the ears, I will definitely try to remove them. They prevent me from seeing the clip edges.

Well, we can't do anything more than wait for the new version... Please pass my humble desire to the programmers for a ON/OFF button for snapping. I am sure you will hear this from many other users also.

 

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The slickest way to land on clip edges is to use the buttons under preview.  ||<  and  >||   No guesswork.  Shortkey keys are <shift-left> and <shift-right>.

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Sorry, the "show beat line" option has been removed.

We'll put the option into the right click menu in the next release. We also polished the look of the beat lines in this release.

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Try beta v7.50, keeping in mind that this is a test version subject to change.

If clips still snap, reinstall - perhaps several times, until they don't.

Right-click the audio track and note a new option:  SHOW BEAT LINES IN WAVEFORM.

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Here is a quick review:

First of all, before anything else,  I totally removed v7.39. Then, I ran a renown registry cleaner, in order to get rid of previous version's parameters -if any.

Finally, I installed the 7.50 beta.

- From the first view, it is obvious that the white beat-line problem is resolved. I right-clicked on a clip to see that it was disabled by default. Perfect! From curiosity, I enabled them and noticed that you also made them dotted, which is good for anyone that might need them. I do not, and was happy to see them go! Just for your input, I do not see any relation with the clip's beat. If you want, I can record a simple beat from one of my synths and send you a copy, in order to see for yourself.

- Now to auto-snap.... It did not go away, it still happens, but it is my impression that it has improved. For me, snap should take place ONLY manually, when you bring two clips into proximity. The biggest annoyment is that it takes place when you remove an intermediate clip, that is a clip between two other clips. We do this all the time duing editting. But, every time you resize an intermediate clip, all the others come closer and closer, trying to snap! This is unacceptable during film editting, when you delete/insert/resize all the time...  Moreover, it happens to other tracks also! When you resize a clip in the first track, other tracks are also trying to snap, imploding the whole film.

The ALT button is a way to fight snap-implosion, but: 

a) some kind of snap-implosion still happens, it is hard to describe the problem, but somehow the next clip still comes to the left and you have to put it back. This occured to 7.39 also.

b) When you press ALT to kill snapping, it also opens "menu" at he top left (line menu)...

I hope I gave some useful feedback,

Takis

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Here, anti-snap seems to be functioning well overall, without using <alt>...

When a clip between two others is deleted a gap the size of that clip remains.  If multiple clips are selected they will be deleted.

Dragging a clip leaves a gap.  If adjacent clips are selected they too will be dragged.

Overlay tracks are not affected.  A linked audio track will be, of course.

As for shortening a clip, one would expect the clips to the right to ripple (snap).  Otherwise there would be a gap.

That said, agree that <alt> should not pop up a menu if a gap is intended between the dragged clip and the one that follows.

When a clip is dragged within a gap, a white vertical line will appear when it reaches the edge of an adjacent clip.  Let up on the mouse.  Drag it farther and arrows appear.  There will be truncation at that point.

It's possible that your install build has snap still enabled.  Reinstall repeatedly (no need to re-download) until clips do not snap.  There is a 50/50 chance each time that it will install the no-snap build..

Remember, this is a work in progress.  Please continue to file suggestions/bug reports.

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To be honest, this beta version (7.50) works much better to me, than the stable 7.39!

First af all, I should clarify that, when I refer to "auto-snap", I do not mean the "magnetic touch" that takes place when we bring two clips into close proximity. This is a useful feature, that speeds up arrangement and help us avoid possible overlap during a manual positioning. The annoying is the one that automatically closes gaps, by moving all clips  that lay to the right, in order to snap. Maybe "auto snap" it is a poor expression from my side and I should call it "auto gap-closure". This totally destroys our timeline!

Shortening intermediate clips is commonly applied for montage purposes. There, we need to find the "matching point", that is the desired point of transitioning.  In many cases, video has a different matching point than audio, and they have to be worked separately. Moreover,  many people (including myself) like to set up a basic timeline plan, by positioning basic clips and leave gaps in between, to be filled later with other clips or trailers. This is how most professional editors work.  You can imagine the damage caused by the automated long range snap.... In your first ever "snap-less" versions, it was much easier to work on the timeline. Since then, I have become a meticulous user of the ALT button but -believe me- mistakes happen all the time and CTRL-Z is now a part of my life. In conclusion, gaps are not necessary bad; As a matter of fact, we often need them there during edit.

Finally, here is some input for the beat feature. The first image  https://ibb.co/6RKSvrd is plain pop beat with tempo 90. You can see that the software has 100% success to identify the rythm. However, as seen in the second image https://ibb.co/MZ91SVs, when instruments are added, it fails to correctly mark the lines on the beat.  As mentioned before, for me this feature is not useful, but it might be to others.

Another bug that exists in all latest versions (and I keep forgetting to report😖) is incorrect saving of the L-R balance status in tracks.  I balance a track i.e. 30% to the Left and another to 45% Right. I finish for the day, save my project and exit VP. When I reload my project, the balance status was not saved correctly. It is 100% left and 100% right. I have to remove the sliders into desired position. On exit again same story, balance is not saved...

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Nicely clarified.  You want a no-snap toggle or, at the least, <alt> that doesn't invoke the 'hamburger' menu.  Seems simple, but of course that's not always the case.^_^

One approach to trimming is to first 'isolate' the clip by dragging it and the next clip to the right.  Then use the clip's handles to trim or reposition it.  No need for <alt>.

As for 'beat', did you try "scan for beat marks" which is available in the right-click menu from the audio track?

Rest assured that the developers are continuing to evaluate these issues.

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Well said.

Yes I scanned for beat marks, otherwise the lines do not appear.

Anyway (sigh..),  I will wait for the next version, and hopefully there will be a gap-closure  enable/disable button. Isolating a clip by first moving the next one to the right is not practical, at least to me. Imagine if you have a line-up of 25 clips...  By the way, try to directly shorten the clip by pulling it from its right end handle: Disaster follows, everything shifts to the left. This did not happen to good old version 4.4.

Another thing, Can you please tell me the name of the variable to change into registry, in order to remove the fluffy ears? There are 10+ variables in the configuration string and I cannot figure out which one refers to the "ears". Shall I change it from i.e. EarsOn to EarsOff?

Thanks again

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Not available in 7.50, and may not be an option in the future.  Have been cautioned that changing of those settings is not advised, so disregard my earlier suggestion.

 ||< and >|| under the preview window work well to locate clip edges.  Shortkey keys are <shift-left> and <shift-right>.

A clip need not be totally isolated in order to drag its trailing handle.  Move only the next clip slightly right and the handle will work, leaving a gap.

While this may not be ideal, it is yet another way of approaching the issue.

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That's OK with the edge-ears. I suppose I will get used to them.

The gap automations though is a different issue and hard to deal with. Therefore, the programmer's hand is needed there...

I am also experiencing delays during edit, mainly with console button response (play-pause button). This was not anticipated, since my computer is faster than average ( 3,9GHz 6 core CPU, 8GB RAM, SSD drive with at least 100GB free space , RADEON 5450 2GB graphics). I do not know if there is something wrong with my installation , I re-installed several times without result. It happens to all versions above 6. I cleared video cache, again no result. I press play/stop during edit and I have ~1sec delay in response. Do you have such a problem?

 

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Keyboard shortcuts are handy for the snap to clip edges.

On the delay, does this occur only on lengthy projects or those with large, high-def files - or on all?

Quote

 takis wrote:  I balance a track i.e. 30% to the Left and another to 45% Right. I finish for the day, save my project and exit VP. When I reload my project, the balance status was not saved correctly.

Using the PAN effect?  Seems to be remembered here

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It occurs to the buttons of the preview console: I press PLAY and it takes 2-3 seconds to start, then STOP and it keeps playing for another 2-3 seconds...

With one or two clips, it  is tolerable. As clips get more and effects are added, the delay gets bigger and bigger, and after a while it is impossible to work anymore.  Do not imagine huge projects, I am talking about 3-4minute total time. Keep in mind that these delays did not exist in versions <5... As mentioned before, my computer is fast and the only part that might be questioned is the graphics card (ASUS HD5450 SILENT). Therefore, I ordered a new graphics card with 4GB memory (for gamers) and I will tell you if it solves this problem.

I use the pan (L-R balance) sliders, since I play different instruments and put them in parallel tracks in order to have extreme stereo effect. But the slider positions are not saved on exit. Please try to set track1 to 40% to the left, and track2 60% to the right. Save and exit VP. When you re-run the software you will see the sliders to 100% left and right respectively.

In this version there is another bug: When I resize an isolated video clip, it moves to the left! It behaves like aligning to the left! Very annoying, because you lose the clips position. It does not happen when ALT is pressed, but again ALT invokes the file-hamburger menu and the mouse loses focus from the timeline. You have to click on the timeline to regain it...

Many problems unfortunately...

 

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