Cannot nest sequences

[EdIh]

Hi, I cannot add a sequences as a clip to another sequence. The help documetation tells me that this should be possible. When I drag Sequence 1 from the sequence tab and drop it to a video track of an empty Sequence 2, I get an error message, something like this (German VideoPad Video Editor Home Edition): "You cannot add a sequence to itself. Make sure the sequence does not appeare as a track clip in another sequence where you want to add it". What goes wrong? I would like to have one main sequence and several scenes as sub sequences of this main sequence.

[Nationalsolo]

Hi

At the start there is always Sequence 1 in the bin. (Its a dummy)

Now...Assemble your clips on the timeline. Sequence 1 will reflect the timeline by showing a thumbnail but will not be a sequence. It will still be a dummy.

Now click "Sequence" followed by "Add" (or "New sequence"). This will clear the timeline and VP will properly tranfer it to Sequence 1 and then create another dummy sequence (Sequence 2).  NOTE: At this instant Sequence 2 will be empty since the timeline is cleared and so it will simply display a clapperboard icon.

You can now if you wish, drag Sequence 1 (which simply behaves like new clip) down onto the empty timeline where you can edit/add to it etc. The dummy Sequence 2 will still be a dummy but as at the start will show a thumbnail of the timeline.......Both the items in the sequence bin will therefore appear the same.

REMEMER...The last sequence in the bin is a dummy. If you try to add this to the timeline it won't go and you will get the message "You cannot add a sequence to itself"   Think of it as actually being empty although in practice VP keeps it up to date with the timeline contents in case you actually want to use it hence the message context...it's simply a stored copy and cannot be used.

To make this a bit clearer and to show it IS a copy, add a new and different clip to the start of the timeline...The last sequence in the bin (the "dummy" ) will show the new clip as the thumbnail. .....although it's not yet a new sequence.....an unusable copy.

In the above scenario Sequence 1 is a real sequence (a new clip in effect combining all the clips on the previous timeline). As such you can add it to the new timeline as many times as you wish just like any clip and even create another new sequence.This will become a Real Sequence 2 whilst Sequence 3 will become a new "dummy"  and so on.... In this way you can "nest" sequences.

Nat

[EdIh]

Thank you for your fast response and explanations! Unfortunately it did not work for me. I followed your steps i.e. to test it I created a completely new project, added some photos to Sequence 1, added a new Sequence 2 and dragged an dropped the Sequence 1 thumbnail to the new timeline of Sequence 2. But there is was again the error message "You cannot add a sequence to itself. Make sure the sequence does not appeare as a track clip in another sequence where you want to add it". I am using version VideoPad Professional v 5.06. Are there any further suggestions?

[borate]

Create a sequence.  The sequence tab in the media area (where the clips are stored) lists it as SEQUENCE 1.

Now, just above the timeline click the X at the right of the sequence 1 tab.  This clears the sequence, and adds a blank sequence 2.

To add sequence one to  sequence 2, click the sequence tab in the MEDIA area.  Right-click on sequence one and click Place On Sequence (or drag it to the timeline).

This adds sequence one to (the initially blank) sequence two.  Multiple sequences can be embedded in this way.

[Nationalsolo]

Hi

I think you may not be doing it correctly as you can add any sequence to another sequence etc.

So to understand how it all works....Do this....

1. Open VP and add three video clips to the Video clip bin.
2. Check the Sequence bin........You will find a file called  Sequence 1 with clapperboard icon....This is an empty dummy file
3. Drag and drop clip 1 and clip 2 from the Video clip bin to the timeline.
4. Check the Sequence bin again....You will now find the file called  Sequence 1 but with the timeline thumbnail..This is still a dummy file   It is NOT  a series of clips (or a single clip)  per se. It is just a copy of the timeline clips and can't be used.
5. Now click "Sequence" on the top toolbar, followed by "New Sequence" This action clears the timeline and makes the file Sequence 1 into a proper sequence.   It is now single clip created from the timeline.
6. Check the Sequence bin again. You will find Sequence 1 which looks the same as before but which is now a proper sequence. You will also see  Sequence 2 which is  new empty dummy sequence.
7. Because Sequence 1 is now a proper clip you can  add it back to the timeline So....
8. Drag and drop Sequence 1 to the timeline. You will see Clip1 and Clip 2 now combined on the timeline.
9. Check the sequence bin again. You will see Sequence 2 has updated with the timeline thumbnail..but it will still be a dummy
10. Try to add Sequence 2 to the timeline......You can't as the prompts aren't there...for the moment it's a dummy file
11. Try to drag and drop Sequence 2 to the timeline......You can't ...you get the message "Can't add a sequence to itself" This is because it is a dummy file.....(Although it apparently contains clip1 and clip2)
12. Drag and drop Sequence 1 to the timeline. YOU CAN!!  It's a proper clip..You have added Sequence 1 to Sequence 1 so you have  Clip1-Clip2-Clip1-Clip2)
13. Carry on.......Create another sequence This will now be Sequence 2 (Clip1-Clip2-Clip1-Clip2) A new file  Sequence 3 will appear and will be another dummy.
14. Add Sequence 2 to the timeline..You can add (insert if you like) another Sequence 1 or another Sequence 2 or Clip3 etc. In fact you can embed (nest) sequences within sequences pretty well as deep as you like.....although rendering them  may be a very long process.

If you are getting the message "Can't add a sequence to itself" you are trying to add a dummy sequence to the timeline

Hope when you run through this it clarifies things

Nat

[EdIh]

Thanks for help.

@borateYes, it should be that easy. But if I use the right-click menu the entry "Place on Sequence" ("Clip in Sequenz platzieren") is visible but greyed out and I cannot click on it.

@Nationalsolo  I think I understand your explanation. I followed exactly your steps. But when I try to execute step 8 and drop Sequence 1 to the timeline of Sequence 2 I get the message "You cannot add a sequence to itself."  If I drop it to Sequence 2 I get the longer meassage as reported above: "You cannot add a sequence to itself. Make sure the sequence does not appeare as a track clip in another sequence where you want to add it".

Maybe nesting is disabled in the "home" license edition of VideoPad Professional version v 5.06? This would be a little bit disappointing because the license (https://secure.nch.com.au/cgi-bin/register.exe?software=videopad) tells that all internal functions should be available. The only limitation should be two audio tracks. I have bought the license two days ago. At the moment I have no other explanation. On the other hand the error message "You cannot add a sequence to itself. Make sure the sequence does not appeare as a track clip in another sequence where you want to add it" then would be missleading. I'm afraid that I have to proceed with my huge single sequence and several additional video tracks as I have to finish my movie within the next few days.

[borate]

You create a sequence 2 and drag sequence 1 to it.  So far so good.

Now, above the timeline, you click the sequence tab, then on sequence one.  Up in the media bin you click on sequence two and attempt to drag it to the timeline of sequence one.  That results in the second message that you quote, because clips from sequence two contain clips from sequence one.  New material can be added.

Keep in mind that a sequence can be exported, then brought back into VP as a clip.  Individual clips within that clip can no longer be edited, but the new clip can be added to any sequence.

Check this out to see the various actions.

[Nationalsolo]

Hi

Oh dear!  Getting complicated...

" I think I understand your explanation. I followed exactly your steps. But when I try to execute step 8 and drop Sequence 1 to the timeline of Sequence 2 I get the message "You cannot add a sequence to itself." 

I can't understand what you are doing here...At  step 8  Sequence 2 in the bin is  a dummy clip  (see step 6)...you haven't created a second sequence yet...It's empty. It has the clapperboard icon.

At this point only Sequence 1 is a clip  and that can be added to the timeline so I am not certain what you mean when you  write "....timeline of Sequence 2"    At step 8 the timeline is empty. It was emptied when Sequence 1 was created.

You should be able to add Sequence 1 to the empty timeline (Step 8) either by drag and drop or by using the menu option which should not be grayed out. As soon as it is added to the timeline the clapperboard icon of Sequence 2 changes to a thumbnail of the current timeline. (Which in this case appears the same)  This may be what is confusing you. But Sequence 2 is still only a dummy clip at this point and can't be used .

In short...

1. VP always starts with an empty clip in the sequence bin (Sequence 1) with a clapperboard icon.
2. It then copies the contents of the timeline to this file as the timeline is developed but doesn't create a clip.
3. Only when you create a Sequence does Sequence  1 become a clip.
4. When you create a sequence the timeline is emptied and a new empty sequence file (Sequence 2) is placed in the bin.
5. When you create a second sequence the timeline is emptied and a new sequence file (Sequence 3) is placed in the bin etc,
6. All the sequences apart from the last one are clips that can be added/inserted/re-added to the timeline.

Nat

[EdIh]

@borateThank you very much for your video link. This shows the behaviour I would expect. Not a complicated thing. I know you will not believe me but I did exactly the test you did in your video: Create a completly new project, add two videos, add both videos to Sequence 1, create new Sequence 2. But then, when I drop the Sequence 1 thumbnail to the timeline view of the Sequence 2 tab (like you did at 0:05 in your video) this results in the message "You cannot add a sequence to itself. Make sure the sequence does not appeare as a track clip in another sequence where you want to add it". In your case it works as expected.

@Nationalsolo Believe me or not, I did the thing borate showed in the first 5 seconds in his demonstration video. Forgive me but in my case also the menu option is grayed out. 

I will send a bug report to NCH and post the result here. Nevertheless, thank you for your help!

 

[borate]

Odd indeed.  Two things to try...

Clear unused cache files, under OPTIONS|DISK tab.

Uninstall the program via Control Panel|Programs and Features and reinstall Videopad.

[Nationalsolo]

Hi Edlh

I still feel you are going wrong somewhere........  (Sorry)

Before you do anything in VP you will have a Sequence 1 in the bin. It's a blank.

Now....Are you saying these steps don't work for you?....Check each line as they should all work (VP version 5.04)

1. Open VP and load two clips to the clip bin.
2. Drag both clips to the timeline. (Clip1+Clip2)
3. Click Sequence on the top toolbar followed by New Sequence. Timeline clears.
4. Open the Sequence bin (Contains 2 sequences now) Sequence 1 is your newly created (Clip1+Clip2) The other, Sequence 2 is an empty dummy with the clapperboard thumbnail.
5. Drag Sequence 1 to the empty timeline.  The clapperboard thumbnail of Sequence 2 changes to an identical thumbnail as Sequence 1....It is still a dummy but the timeline is copied to it. Timeline now has Clip1+Clip2 as a single clip
6. Place or Drag Sequence 1 to the timeline again..........Should work like any normal clip. The timeline is now two Sequence 1s. i.e.   (Clip1+Clip2)....(Clip1+Clip2).............Yes or No? 
7. If the answer is yes......then create another sequence......
8. Click Sequence on the top toolbar followed by New Sequence, Timeline clears.
9. Open the sequence bin. It now contains 3 sequences .....Sequence 1, Sequence 2 (your new one) and a clapperboard Sequence 3.
10. Place or drag and drop either Sequence 1 or Sequence 2 to the timeline (clapperboard thumbnail will change as it did before but Sequence 3 remains a dummy and can't be used.
11. Add/insert Sequence1 or Sequence2 to the timeline as many times as you like. (nesting) You should not get a message. You will only get a message if you try to move The last sequence as it is always a dummy.(In this case Sequence 3)

                            This is what should happen and all these steps should work exactly as set out here. 

I get the impression that you are attempting to move the last sequence in the bin. It is confusing as the timeline is continually copied to it and so it has a thumbnail of the timeline making it look like a usable clip. Personally I think it should remain the clapperboard thumbnail until the sequence is created.

My other question is... ...When you have created your first sequence at step 4 and selected Sequence 1, does the Place tab for the bin remain Greyed out or does it become active?....It should become active as at step 4 it is a real sequence clip.

If, on the other hand  you select Sequence 2 does it remain greyed out.....It should do as at step 4 sequence 2 is a dummy clip.Trying to add it to the timeline produces the error message. remember the last Sequence, whatever it might look like cannot be used.

Nat