Video has credits that shake and scroll jagged

[seashell]

Hi Members,

 

Everything was successful with my video i created. The exported or "Saved Movie" was no problem. Although the video had no problems and looked fantastic in preview mode, I noticed that in the final output, the credits that scrolled (from bottom to top) are jagged and don't scroll smoothly as did in preview mode.

 

This happens in the beginning and at the end of the video where I have scrolling titles and credits. The movie itself is perfect. It's only the scrolling text that is jagged. The text also appears to stop and then go (momentarily) and then scrolls very shaky.

 

I saved the movie in both .mpg and .wmv formats and the results are the same (jagged credits as they scroll).

 

Windows 7

VideoPad ver. 2.41

 

Any ideas what could be causing this problem?

 

Thank you.

[Nationalsolo]

Hi

 

To make your scrolling credits smoother they must run slower as VP generates the frames required to complete the scroll within the timescale set by the user. Obviously to do this you must drag out the text box on the overlay track to increase the time the text is displayed. If you are doing this over a neutral frame then you may want to increase the duration of this as well. With a lot of text lines the overlay duration should be corresponding longer so the text does not scroll too fast as this can also make it appear jerky.

Two or three lines of text will scroll smoothly if the duration is extended to about 10 seconds (or more)

 

For rendering I use HD 720 preset with Encoder options MPEG4 (Native) This gives smooth scrolling of text for me.

 

Nat

[seashell]

Hi Nat,

 

Question # 1

 

What is interesting is that my video is jerky as well. My original video file is not jerky but it became jerky when I loaded it into VP by clicking "add file". I can't lengthen my video that enables VP to play catch-up by giving it time to create frames because I never shortened the clip to begin with. Why is the video jerky as well? Could it be my system memory. I'm only running 1 GB ram and I've just about used it all up running VP and windows 7. All other software is turned off.

 

Question # 2

 

>>>If you are doing this over a neutral frame then you may want to increase the duration of this as well.

 

In regards to "neutral" do you mean a "blank clip" that is used for an overlay text clip?

 

Question # 3

 

>>>Two or three lines of text will scroll smoothly if the duration is extended to about 10 seconds (or more)

 

Are you saying that it may be better to "break-up" my credits into separate text overlay clips (each with at most 4 lines of text)? Rather than one big long text clip?

 

Question # 4

 

>>>For rendering I use HD 720 preset with Encoder options MPEG4 (Native) This gives smooth scrolling of text for me.

 

I'm creating a video to upload to my Youtube channel. What is the best format to render? Are you recommending .mpg? Is .mpg the same as MPEG4 (Native)? If not, I do not see MPEG 4 Native in the drop down box under the "video output set-up" window that is present when I click "Export Video".

 

My original video file (that was added to my VP project) is not perfect to begin with. It was compressed using VirtualDubMod and is about 3:15 in runtime and only 9.29 MB. I compressed this file two years ago so that it was able to be emailed. It does run fairly smooth for only a 9.29 MB file (hardly any jerk or chop). But it is much more choppy and jerky when I load it into my VP project file. Unfortunately I have to use this file to create a youtube video and I'm using VP to accomplish this. The original specs on this video file (after compression and before loading into my VP project) are:

 

Video Stream

1) fps {us per frame} - 30 fps {33333 us}

2) Frame Size - 640x480

3) Length - 5870 frames

4) Compression - XviD MPEG-4 codec for original compression

5) Data Rate - 258 kbps {2.18% overhead}.

 

Audio Stream

1) Sampling Rate - 44100Hz

2) Channels - 2 (Stereo)

3) Audio Tag - Tag: 0x0055, ACM Decodable MPEG-1 Layer 3 (MP3)

4) Compression - Fraunhofer llS MPEG Layer-3 Codec

5) Length - 3130635 samples (3:15.66)

6) Data Rate - 128 kbps (0.30% overhead)

 

What are the best settings to choose to render this project when completed?

 

Question # 5

 

Nat, I downloaded VP ver. 3.02 and it is certainly much better than ver. 2.41. Just finding my way around while creating my video. Very nice interface. Much more options! Looks real good!. Can you tell me what limitations are present in this trial version? I'm trying to extend the video track and its not as easy as ver. 2.41. It only seems to let me do it in small increments as oppose to just dragging the track clip to the left or right by holding the mouse down until I have the required length needed.

 

Also, Is there a link that lists the limitations of the trial software ver. 3.02 (this way I won't be confused and waste time as to why a particular function is not working?

 

Windows 7

1 GB Ram

VP ver. 3.02

 

Thank you kindly

[Nationalsolo]

Hi

 

"My original video file is not jerky but it became jerky when I loaded it into VP by clicking "add file".

 

If I use MPEG4 files (H264) 1280 x 720 saved from my camera to PC, they play perfectly smoothly both with WMP and VLC, but once added to VP they play in small regular jerks which is particularly noticeable with any object moving across the screen (like traffic). Unfortunately the effect is present in all the edited output and it seems to be inherent with the way VP saves and stores the files. As I need to edit I am stuck with it. If your jerkyness is much worse with frames jumping/freezing or breaking in half then it may be a performance problem linked to your PC.

 

"In regards to "neutral" do you mean a "blank clip" that is used for an overlay text clip?"

 

Not exactly, I was refering to a Blank Frame (or still image, or relevant video clip of sufficient length,)added to the sequence line and over which your text scrolls. The duration of a blank frame or image can easily be lengthened or an intro video clip more than long enough can easily be shortened. The Overlay on this would be your scrolling text.

 

"Are you saying that it may be better to "break-up" my credits into separate text overlay clips (each with at most 4 lines of text)? Rather than one big long text clip?"

 

No. What I was saying is that if you have several lines of text in the overlay and the duration is short, the scroll is faster (to fit it in) and so may become jerky as less frames are generated.So more lines of text should have a longer overlay box to decrease the scroll speed. In which event it should become clearer.

 

In version 2.41 After selecting "Save Movie" I click the down arrow at the right of the Preset box (which has Custom as the default) and select HD 720. (My original format from camera is usually HD720 MPEG 4 H264 clips but I convert these to MPEG2 clips for reasons related to image/sound lag. On my setup 1920 x 1080 Full HD gets rapidly out of synch ) If you now click Encoder Options you can select MPG4 (Native) and output your sequence with these options. They look oK on the PC via WMP and VLC player.

 

In the past I tried all the various format options to upload a short test slideshow to UT. These settings seemed to work as the others were too pixellated to watch. This is a link to a slideshow made up of Lunar webcam photos, all 640 x 480, cropped to 16:9 AR, assembled with VP 2.41 and saved with the above settings.

 

 

(Later)....Just noticed that my link actually puts that slideshow here. However I note that now,all the dissolves and zooms/pans are very jerky... A thing NOT seen in the original which is pretty smooth apart from the pan at 2.52 which resembles the "traffic" effect I mentioned above. So I have to assume that it has been further altered by it being visualised from the link I entered. The images, being stills don't show any jerkyness so I am wondering how an actual movie will look here??

 

In many ways I rather like Version 3.02 as there are many useful features however, the program seems to produce hundreds of cache files even with a short edited film the generation of which slows things up considerably and if you read the comments on this forum ...

 

http://nch.invisionz...-sloooooowwwww/

 

.... you will note that it rapidly becomes very slow indeed whenever an edit it made or the software is building the preview or generating thumbnails etc.. Unfortunately this prevents further editing of the sequence until the updating of the cache files has completed. I understand the problem is being addressed by NCH. In the meanwhile I have gone back to using v2.41

 

Nat

[seashell]

>>>If your jerkyness is much worse with frames jumping/freezing or breaking in half then it may be a performance problem linked to your PC.

 

I am using VideoPad to make tutorial videos on "How-to Lead Guitar solos". As a result, yes, as my my hand moves across the guitar fretboard there is jerkyness that makes the video unusable. Its not so much my PC but the fact that their is "detailed" movement that is jerky/jagged. Now this could be the result of a video compression I did to the original video. The original plays ok but who knows what role the compression plays when VP renders the output "finished" file (movie).

 

>>>Not exactly, I was refering to a Blank Frame (or still image, or relevant video clip of sufficient length,)added to the sequence line and over which your text scrolls. The duration of a blank frame or image can easily be lengthened or an intro video clip more than long enough can easily be shortened. The Overlay on this would be your scrolling text.

 

Ok I understand. Thank you. Yes, I am aware how to shorten and lengthen the clips so the scrolling speeds up or slows down. I was experimenting with this in detail the other day. Unfortunately in ver. 3.02 the jerkyness is still present albeit less but its still there and makes the credits look non-professional. I just can't use the scroll feature. It's too shaky/jerky.

 

>>>In version 2.41 After selecting "Save Movie" I click the down arrow at the right of the Preset box (which has Custom as the default) and select HD 720. (My original format from camera is usually HD720 MPEG 4 H264 clips but I convert these to MPEG2 clips for reasons related to image/sound lag. On my setup 1920 x 1080 Full HD gets rapidly out of synch ) If you now click Encoder Options you can select MPG4 (Native) and output your sequence with these options. They look oK on the PC via WMP and VLC player.

 

Interesting and very informative! By the way.... when I render the final output movie and choose .mpg is that actually mpeg-2 or mpeg-4. I'm not clear as to what the exact mpg actually is mpeg-1, mpeg-2, mpeg-3 or mpeg-4?

 

>>>This is a link to a slideshow made up of Lunar webcam photos, all 640 x 480, cropped to 16:9 AR, assembled with VP 2.41 and saved with the above settings.

 

Fantastic video! Great work!

 

>>>A thing NOT seen in the original which is pretty smooth apart from the pan at 2.52 which resembles the "traffic" effect I mentioned above. So I have to assume that it has been further altered by it being visualised from the link I entered.

 

I did not notice this until you mentioned it. The fact that it is a black and white video and its a :busy" clip helps to hide the jerkyness. Other than that, it is a great video! Yes, who knows how much the jerkyness is a exaggerated as a result of being processed by passing the video on to other sources via links etc. Therein lies the mystery.

 

>>>In many ways I rather like Version 3.02 as there are many useful features however, the program seems to produce hundreds of cache files even with a short edited film the generation of which slows things up considerably and if you read the comments on this forum ... http://nch.invisionz...-sloooooowwwww/

 

Yes I did read through all the posts. Thank you.

[Nationalsolo]

Hi

Sorry my comments weren't a lot help re: the jerky titles. It's just that slowing them down does make them smoother. The panning jerkyness I get (which may be similar to your problem), I am sure, is caused by VP, and is recorded in the output file so is an inherited (fault) in any VP edited film. It might be due to the files being compressed when they are loaded to VP since inputting an MPEG4 clip and then outputting it again as another MPEG4 clip using the settings I mentioned above results in a file about half the size of the original. You might find that interesting to try.

 

Thanks for the comments on the "slideshow". As I use the free unlicenced version 2.41 of VP the .mpg option is not available. The MPEG4 (Native) setting under encoder options saves the video as an MPEG4 XVID coded file. I mentioned that I convert my original MPEG4 H264 HD clips to MPEG2. clips (Using Any video converter) These original files when played in WMP and VLC show a reduced speed and gradual desynching of the sound and image. This becomes serious if the clips are full 1080 HD clips. Furthermore the image seems to have a reduced contrast. When converted to MPEG2 the contrast is increased, the speed is correct and the synch is OK.

I think you may have to keep experimenting.

 

Nat

[Nationalsolo]

Hi Seashell

 

Coming back to your comments re jerky titles. You are correct. No matter how slow you set the scroll, the lines move upwards in short regular jerks. I generally use static titles on separate screens but I just had a look at some older films (on DVD) where I had originally noted the jerky pans and traffic movement and looked particularly at my scrolling credits. They behaved in the same way as you described.

This is decidely a problem (fault?) created by VP, particularly as the raw MPEG4 or MPEG2 files show no such jerkyness, and I think NCH should look into it.

Or, explain why this happens.

 

Nat

[seashell]

Hi Nat,

 

I've been holding off on responding to posts because I've been real busy working out all my video issues. As much as I would like to say FIXED, a more appropriate word would SOLVED. "Solved" as in "solved the puzzle" and found a work-around. "Fixed" signifies the code was corrected and/or the problem(s) should not occur again under normal usage.

 

Please stand by..... I am almost finished with my edit and will respond with what I have discovered. At this point in time, I do not have any issues with jagged or shaky, pans and scrolling credits. In fact they look great! Also, I created a post earlier in regards to "text or font size issues". This was my biggest issue with VP and I have found a work-around that allowed me to display an acceptable and readable font size that is used on my beginning title clip and ending credits clips.

 

Stand by please........

 

VideoPad Version 2.41

Windows 7

[soko]

Hey guys,

 

I have the exact un-smooth problem with my credits. I'm using VideoPad v3.04 which I just pruchased.

So it seems its a bug in VP, isn't it?

Did anyone report this bug already?

 

@seashell

What is your workaround in detail? Did you just slowed down the scrolling?

 

Thx

Soko

[MartinCZ]

Hello all

any news on this? The jerky credits look really terrible, and slowing them down isnt always the solution. I noticed that exporting to MPEG2 makes the things much worse than e.g.AVI.

Hope the NCH reads the forum, too.

Martin

[Nationalsolo]

Hi

 

Haven't seen any changes yet and I agree scrolling can still appear jerky. But...by making the clip last longer (the text clip that is) it will move smaller increments between each frame and will look smoother.

A bottom to top scroll taking 15 seconds is pretty smooth. Several lines of vertically scrolling text will move faster than a single line of text over the same time duration as the block of text has to leave the screen fully to complete the effect. So you may have to increase the duration of a long text block.

 

The other thing is that the preview screens are only 288 pixels resolution in height and if the text moves bottom to top in, say, 10 seconds, ...this is about about 28 pixels a second and corresponds to the normal fps speed....about 1 pixel per frame so it looks reasonably smooth. (15 seconds looks better for this reason.)

 

However, once this has been rendered to a 1080 pixel height image, then the text must move 100 pixels per second which is 4 pixels each frame and so can become noticably more jerky as the text makes bigger jumps....and this is for a 10 second scroll.

There may also be an issue connected to the text type and font size chosen and the way VP has to reconstruct the text for each character as it moves.

 

With regards my converting to MPEG2. I do this with my raw MPEG4 H.264 clips before I start editing. If I don't do this the sound in the MPEG4 clips quickly gets out of sink, often by a considerable amount, particularly if I film as Full HD 1080. I export as an HD 720 H.264 (native).avi or MPEG4.(Native) .avi

 

Nat

[HisDaveness]

I found a work-around of playing with the frame rate. 30 seems to work well.

 

Interestingly, 40fps is worse, and at 60fps the text is just a jumpy as at the default. Not sure what's so special about 30.